Win2K drivers

35 replies [Last post]
wildMEDIA
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Joined: Feb 12 2001

Will there ever be Win2K drivers for the AVmaster..... or has all the interest of FAST wondered off to the DV users?

FAST
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Joined: Dec 4 2000

No, AV Master will not support Windows 2000. It already supports three versions of Windows - 95, 98 and NT. In editing, there would be no advantage in using Windows 2000.

FAST UK Technical Support

wildMEDIA
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Joined: Feb 12 2001

Sure there would be...!!
I guess you guys have not been keeping up with current events. I am not about to explain the benefits of making the switch to win2k, but I am sure there are enough people who see it my way.
I guess my first guess was right: the AVmaster users are being left out, whereas others benefit from the advances in OS's.

Thank you very much!!!
(can you feel the irony?)

maxbasi
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Joined: Feb 14 2001

"Thank you very much" is this customer care?

allan
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Joined: May 1 1999

I too like many others would like to upgrade my operating system and was quite disturbed with the response from FAST that there are no plans to update the drivers...the implication is that the Fast AV Master is on its way out and the customer care is zero...so much for my loyalty

FAST
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Joined: Dec 4 2000

FAST started looking into the possibility of Win 2k drivers for AV Master as early as 1999. The intention was to adapt the NT drivers for Windows 2000, but this proved impossible due to Windows 2000 Plug & Play.

Of course there would be be benefits in upgrading to Win 2k, but it would add no functionality or benefit to AV Master.

The latest version of AV Master drivers, 2.5 Build 0024, supports the latest version of MediaStudio (6.0) and the latest version of Windows (Me). So, that shows that software development has not ceased and AV Master users are not 'being left out.'

Windows 2000 drivers were not developed because it proved too difficult and because Win Me is a more suitable OS for AV Master. Win Me is the successor to Win 98 and therefore is (in Microsoft's own words) aimed more at Multimedia, Video etc, just as Windows 2000 followed on from Windows NT as the OS aimed more at network/office environments.

FAST do care about their customers and apologise for any inconvenience the lack of Win 2k drivers has caused.

FAST UK Technical Support

wildMEDIA
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Joined: Feb 12 2001

Such a shame that FAST seems to be missing my point completely. Well, as my question is answered anyway and I am not here to educate anyone, I won't spend a lot of words explaning what I DID meant.

Another shame is, that FAST seems to have made up his mind what is a good operating system for it's clients is, instead of leaving that decision up to the clients themselves. Since they are the ones having to work with it.

username
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Joined: Feb 19 2001

Is there any possible reason for being able to write drivers for DV-master but not for AV-master? w2k works much more stabel than windows me. Therefor I use it.
Furthermore I do not want to "downgrade" to windows me nor buy a DV-master.

wildMEDIA
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Joined: Feb 12 2001

Good question which probably won't get you an answere. Anyway, not the answere you want to hear or grassp the meaning of.
Well as you can hear I am pretty negative by now, as far as support by FAST goes.
I won't get a DVmaster anyway. I made the switch to Matrox a few months ago. Their support is very good. I love the RT2000, as of today realtime all the way with Premiere 6.0 under winME and Win2K.

Bye bye FAST....

Oh yeah, AVmaster for sale: paul@wildmedia.nl

FAST
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Joined: Dec 4 2000

By way of an explanation, both AV Master and DV Master products are based on a hardware design developed in 1995/1996, when the products were launched. The conception and interaction of the hardware and software modules is based on MS Windows 95 and NT 4.0.

Newer platforms like Windows 2000 expect PC cards and peripherals to support drivers and interfaces developed for this operating system. Unfortunately, in the case of both AVM/DVM the support of the Windows 2000 plug & play scheme is not possible because the chipset does not support interrupt sharing.

This means, a complete integration of the hardware is not possible. Put bluntly, it plum doesn't work. Sorry if this not the news that customers expect, but it is at least the reason. I feel very strongly that FAST do provide excellent after sales support in the UK, but we can't change problems inherent in the hardware, all we can do is be up front about it.

What Robert was trying to say in his earlier mail on this thread was that there are, we believe, comparatively few advantages to be gained _in editing terms_ by using Win 2k. But, you could still use Win 2k for other apps by installing a dual boot, for example by using PowerQuest's BootMagic, and run two operating systems. There are also freeware bootmanagers available, such as BootStar Star-Tools http://www.star-tools.com/bootstar/english/

Hope this answers your question a little more fully.

Steve Wise
General Manager
FAST Multimedia UK

wildMEDIA
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Joined: Feb 12 2001

I am sorry, but as you have guessed it.... it doesn't. I must sound like a real as***le, but ok, I'll take that chance.

Building servers for video applications for some years now, developping our own soft- en hardware, the chipset story doesn't make much sense to me.
Ok, I do admit that things have changed with the implementation of Win2K, we also have had our share of difficulty, but I have never heard of a piece of hardware forwhich no drivers could be writen.
Sounds more to me, that is too much hassle developping these drivers for a product which is no longer of interest to FAST and (I admit) the mainstream public.

No need to respond to this.

pet-1
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Joined: Feb 28 2001

In view of this, I find my self with two AV masters 2000 which I can no longer use. Guess it´s time to count your losses and try alternate approach.

I need a replacement for those two cards, and hope you can help me out here. The feature i realy liked with the AV Master was that you could capture composite signal and play back right away AVI files with out any rendering. Now, the "off the shelve" cards Ive been experimenting with, require rendering time. Anyone know of a card that does what AV Master did, and works under W2K? I think you owe me at least an advice on how to procede from here.

Oh, and if anyone is interesting, these two cards are now for sale for a reasonable price

quote:Originally posted by FAST:
FAST started looking into the possibility of Win 2k drivers for AV Master as early as 1999. The intention was to adapt the NT drivers for Windows 2000, but this proved impossible due to Windows 2000 Plug & Play.

Of course there would be be benefits in upgrading to Win 2k, but it would add no functionality or benefit to AV Master.

The latest version of AV Master drivers, 2.5 Build 0024, supports the latest version of MediaStudio (6.0) and the latest version of Windows (Me). So, that shows that software development has not ceased and AV Master users are not 'being left out.'

Windows 2000 drivers were not developed because it proved too difficult and because Win Me is a more suitable OS for AV Master. Win Me is the successor to Win 98 and therefore is (in Microsoft's own words) aimed more at Multimedia, Video etc, just as Windows 2000 followed on from Windows NT as the OS aimed more at network/office environments.

FAST do care about their customers and apologise for any inconvenience the lack of Win 2k drivers has caused.

FAST UK Technical Support

------------------

wildMEDIA
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Joined: Feb 12 2001

A replacement for your AVmasters? Hmmmm.... I made the switch to Matrox' RT2000 some time ago. I am very pleased with it. It's captures both digital (IEEE1394) and analogue (compostie + y/c) to DV AND MPEG2.
http://www.matrox.com/videoweb/products/enduser/rt2000.htm

micktol
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Joined: Jan 20 2001

I have seen on dazzle's german news group
posts that seem to be from people who are using the nt drivers on win200 any info?

wildMEDIA
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Joined: Feb 12 2001

Tried it....no sigar

allan
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Joined: May 1 1999

I too have now got rid of my AV Master simply because it would not work with the Latest operating system..Windows 2000.

The fear I now have is that the DIF files used by my excellent Fast DV Now card will never be able to work with the likes of Uleads MS PRO or Adobie After effects and this too will have been money thrown away..COME ON FAST/DAZZLE PLEASE GET THE DIF FILES WORKING WITH OTHER SOFTWARE!!!

[This message has been edited by allan (edited 11 March 2001).]

maxbasi
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Joined: Feb 14 2001

Let me give you (FAST-DAZZLE) a good idea,
WHY not give us (AVMASTER owner), the source code of AVMASTER driver or documentation to write us a good software under ANY OS?
Because I can't belive that is impossible write new driver(W2K and WME) for AvMaster.
Should be better if you speak sincerely with us, "IS NOT CONVENIENT!" spend money for new (free) drivers.
This is reality!
So anyway, please,give us API, source
code, and somebody (I hope) will write something....(perhaps myself) and you will be
free from ower request.
Because I am irritated for my money.....
I have buyed AVM 3 years ago and I have used
not very often and in bad way(CPU slow, continuous problem) and now I can't use it,
because new pc are with W2000 and can't downgrade because only 1 peripheral is not
supported from manufactor.
Finally if you don't give us this, at least give us, advantageous upgrade for change AV Master or you want lose your client?

ciao

Max

Sgt.Pepper
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Joined: Mar 22 2001

When I bought my AVMaster 2000 Pilot in December 1999, the name led me to think that it would have worked with W2K (I did phone them and they said that they had drivers under development). I didn't even unpack it until I got my copy of W2K at the end of Feb.2000 (I had a PC with WinNT and didn't want to install everything for just a couple of months). When I installed everything and founf that it was not even recognized by the system, that was frustrating. Other calls abroad (I am in Italy and I called Germany and the UK) they said wait, wait then they said that there would not have been drivers. I just threw away 1000 euros (that's about the price of the card in Italy). I have never used it, and seeing how FAST treat there clients and not beeing able to develop a W2K driver I will go and by a card from the competition.

ubiquityman
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Joined: Mar 31 2001

I'm extremely disappointed with the lack of support for Win2k.

My vote is cast. This definitely the last Fast product I purchase.

I've been telling everyone I know to stay as far away from Fast products as possible.

fili
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

Hi, I just made a DUAL boot (win98 & w2k) and was hoping I could install the video codecs (not the driver!) to be able to grab video in win98 en edit it in w2k. However which of the installation files (in my win98 system dir) is the AVM FAST videocodec? And is it possible to get this up and running in w2k? Or does the codec require support from the AVM card? Or do I have everything mixed up here?

Thanks for helping, fili.

PYV
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Joined: Apr 2 2001

So, what is Fast-Dazzle's official answer to maxbasi's proposal (March 15th)?
I am convinced that I am not the only one that doesn't fall for that lame money-related excuse and that a few willing brains can figure out a way out of this.

I advise every other unsatisfied customer to to express their interest in this thread, hoping the numbers will affect Fast-Dazzle's decision of handing over the sources in a positive way.

bsvid
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Joined: Feb 20 2001

I guess the book is closed, I know it will do no good, but I would also like to express my disappointment with Dazzle/Fast or whatever they are now. Their decision not to support the AVMaster with Win2k drivers makes me wish that I had not bought the DVnowAV. Fast should have created Win2k drivers for this product!

Steve

wildMEDIA
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Joined: Feb 12 2001

Yep me too, I am glad I didn't go for the Silver, but went to Matrox and their DigiSuite and the RT2000. Two great systems, work together too.

FAST
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Joined: Dec 4 2000

Look, this really isn't the point of this forum, which is here to provide support where we - and other users - can.

Releasing source code is not only practically unheard of, it's a corporate decision. And we've already said it's not going to happen.

Wildmedia, you are now happily editing with Matrox. Great. Matrox make excellent products. We don't have a problem with that. But we do have a problem with you constantly popping up and moaning about FAST, because this really isn't the reason we have this forum.

Regards

FAST UK

PD
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Joined: Aug 6 1999

Look chaps,

I can’t tell you how much I sympathise with both sides of this argument.

Obviously one of the purposes of the DVdoctor Forums is to help users of desktop video editing equipment to get the best out of the choices they have made.

In respect of Microsoft Windows 2000 device drivers for legacy devices… in one way or another we have expressed our opinions to not only FAST Multimedia but many of the other manufacturers both within the mainstream and in this specific technology sector; the responses we have received, no matter how the ‘spin’ was presented, have been pretty much unanimously negative but FAST Multimedia stood out as one of those organisations who were committed enough to debate the issue with us and deliberated over whether they could focus the bandwidth to accommodate such a request.

In respect of the release of the source code… before vehemently venting your frustration on the company here that is trying to do it’s best for it’s customers by working with us, DVdoctor and you, to provide an open forum for support, why not conduct your own research and see what percentage, if any, of all the hardware manufacturers are willing to release the source code to their products? From this you may see things in a different light.

We have today raised a proposal to FAST Multimedia to exclusively help DVdoctor Forum members, this does not relate to W2K device drivers nor the release of source code; absolutely no promises but we are investigating other options.

What is absolutely not helpful is some of the types of rhetoric that has been raised in this thread.

I really do not want to lock this thread but if it continues I will, and if necessary any persistent perpetrators who are not prepared to contribute within the spirit of goodwill with which these forums have been established, and the community has grown, will be barred. Simple as it is.

I *truly* hope that will not be necessary and everyone will move forwards in a mature fashion.

We are awaiting our copies of Windows XP Beta 2.

FAST Multimedia’s commitment to AV Master device driver development was, I believe, extended from it’s original release with Windows 95 through to Windows Me and NT4 Service Pack 6 and all versions of DirectX 3 or later.

Microsoft suggests that even more compatibility with legacy devices, such as AV Master, will be present in Windows XP. Time will tell.

If I am in a position to report to you our experiences of AV Master operation under Windows XP then I will.

Windows XP Beta 2 is available from Microsoft for a $9.95 USD from this URL:
http://register.microsoft.com/regsys/regsys.asp?wizid=4168&lcid=1033

Why not register there and try the latest Beta there for yourselves?

I hope this helps.

Cheers!

------------------
Paul

Paul Dutton
DVdoctor R&D

HEXUS.swankyDynamicSignature - Give it a click!

FredJ
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Joined: Apr 4 2001

I have created a 22-minute file. I need one AVI file for SVCD disk. A 22-minute AVI file
size is 2.7 GB and I get a File write error. I need Win2K to get over the
2GB limit. It's a codec issue because I'm running Win98Se FAT32 and the FAST AVMaster codec must support OpenDML and apparently FAST does not.

MediaStudioPro supports Open DML. Why can't FAST support it also?

wildMEDIA
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Joined: Feb 12 2001

Oh wow,

Haven't been here in a while, but returning is worth it. Never thought my replies to other people on this forum, would get you (FAST) angry.
I use this forum as I have used the Internet over the last ten years, as a playground for brainstorming and the exchange of ideas.
I am sorry you don't think of it that way.
I am sorry I am used to speaking my mind because of it.
I am Sorry you perceive it as 'moaning'.
So be it.

Oh well, as I can see (and guessed), you'd rather spend your time insulting your clients(' intelligence), than working on a way to please them.

No worries, I won't be back (disabled cooky thingy too)

Signing off........

digitalimaging
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Joined: Apr 11 2001

I too started out back in late 98/99 to see if win2000 drivers would ever be available and after mabny weeks of waiting got the standard response from what was then fast, I stuck with win98 for my dv master and then had a go at a dual boot system but it was too much hassle, I have a machine with 100gb disk and dual everthing, monitors/sound/etc
if you got a bug it could take up to three days to restart/reload fully so i decoded to use windows me this has proved okay up until yesterday when i installed a new version of directx8 and the DV DRIVERS FOR DIRECTX, now my test card is fuzzy and the signal poor and after playing around with installing the fast software I have now lost the testcard completly so i can not monitor the video at all. In three years of owning Fast I must say that as this chapter comes to an end I will most likley be glad to see the back of it, it has been the most fustrating peice of hardware i have ever come across, Yes there are days when it would work okay but then just as you began to make progress
Bang invalid page error would appear... on a machine with two 450 III and 524 mb ram this is a nonsense.
Adobe premiere 6.0 does not support this although now it ironicaly supports DV, You say that your latest driver supports windows ME but this is with ulead studio, can i send my copy of premiere back for a swap?????
All because you refuse to write a driver for 2000, now i am left with a hard decision do i go like others and try the matrox solution, I have their video card installed and it has always worked and gets updated drivers every 3-4 months and knowing that they offer realtime solutions or do i take my dealer up on his £2000.00 offer of a Fast Purple system...which I do not see doing realtime with out an aditional board. or do i give in-sync speed razor a go with my exsisting card which has so far been very disapointing.
On a technical note, If you want to dual boot using purely MS software here is the problems i have found.
If you want win98/me and nt4 you must use fat16 file system in boot area which if like me and have a 30gb disc this means 15 2gb partitions as you can not mix file systems on the same hard drive.
If you want win98/me and win2000 then you can use fat32 for the whole disc, but then you do not get the benefit of ntfs file system. The card shows as disabled hardware in the win2000 profile and all is okay untill you do some update and the machine decides that it doesn,t like it. then the video card refuses to see any dv input untill software is reloaded on to harddrive
But anyway enough of this, ps video preview doesn,t work in ME using Matrox 400 max only shows frame when still.

ubiquityman
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Joined: Mar 31 2001

Straight from the DazzleFast web site:
( Maybe it's been there for a while, but it's the first time I've seen it.)

If anyone has tried this, I'd be interested in hearing whether they are successful or not.

---------------

Question:
Are there any Windows 2000 drivers for AV Master?

Answer:
No. Due to hardware design limitations, AV Master cannot support Wiindows 2000 in terms of power management (ACPI) and advanced Plug&Play. Nevertheless, it is possible to work with the NT drivers under Windows 2000 in most cases (see installation notes below). Please note that the installation should only be done by experienced Windows 2000 users. We cannot guarantee that the following procedure works on any given PC system configuration. Moreover, we cannot provide technical support for AV Master under Windows 2000. Installing the product under this operating system is done at the owner's risk.
Basically, AV Master will not run in ACPI mode. Install Windows 2000 without ACPI as "standard PC". During the DOS-based part of the setup, Windows allows to integrate additional drivers by pressing F6. At this point, press the F5 key instead and choose "Standard PC". Alternatively, if the operating system is installed already, you can de-activate ACPI subsequently. Open the Device Manager and then the category "Computer". Double-click on the "ACPI" entry there. Go to Driver / Update driver. Let Windows display all drivers. Go to "Standard types" and choose "Standard PC". Windows installs some files and re-boots afterwards. All devices will be found again and installed in non-ACPI mode. Next, open Device Manager, go to "Unknown devices" (yellow question mark symbol) and double-click the "Media controller", which stands for AV Master. Click on Driver / Update driver / Display all... / Have disk and browse to the directory x:\Programs\FAST\NT\AV Master\Drv (where "x:" stands for the drive containing the AV Master programs, usually c . Pick "FAST AV Master Kernel driver" from the list. The driver is added to the "Sound, video and game controllers" category in Device Manager. After a final re-boot, AV Master should work without problems, provided there is no IRQ double assignment. In this case, please refer to our Technote 21070.

Nicox
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Joined: Apr 18 2001

Hello,

I've just seen this information. I'll try this thing in the evening.

Bye

NicoX

RichardJ
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Joined: May 7 1999

Thanks for that note. IME it's the interrupt sharing (or lack of) that's the real bitch. It affects Win 9x systems as well, because of the way the BIOS and PnP allocate IRQs.

Technote 21070 is real fun read - it basically says "fiddle around with what cards are in what PCI slots, if it doesn't work try another motherboard, and don't buy cheap or all-in-one motherboards" (!).

I've been upgrading a 98SE system to XP beta-2, and of course the AVM won't install, but I'll try it in non-ACPI mode as described. A bigger problem is that I had to swap the old ISA net card for a PCI one (XP won't touch non-PnP ISA NICs), and even on 98 the AVM was crashing the system if it was on a shared IRQ, and I couldn't get it to not share! I could be in for a lot of plugging and praying

I think the real trouble is that the AVM was developed a tad early, before the whole PCI/IRQ/PnP thing was properly sorted out. As a result it's inherently incompatible with modern PCI machines. A shame, because in video terms it's one of the best analogue cards ever made.

BTW the tech support info is on http://www.dazzle-europe.com/m_us_set_support.html , click on "information database" in the text, then "All Documents by Product and Category", then "AV Master", then you can list the FAQs or technotes.

------------------
Richard Jones, http://www.activeservice.co.uk
Home of the MediaStudio Pro Tutorial

Richard Jones, http://www.activeservice.co.uk
Home of the MediaStudio Pro Tutorial - Edition 3 for MSP 7

Sqorbie
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Joined: Jan 2 2001

Hi all out there,

I saw some postings about W2K and the drivers...
Well it's right that the AV-Master works fine with the NT4.0 under W2K Prof.
The only thing you need next to it is a separate RGB-monitor, like you were used to in NT40. Don't blame FAST, because AV-master still works but only under Microsoft conditions!!

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

One possible ray of hope for people who want to run Win 2K and an AV Master.

Connectix is launching a program - Virtual PC for Windows - that lets you run multiple variants of Windows without rebooting or having to use different boot hard disks.

Naturally, I'm chasing hard to get a review sample.

Connectix is at: www.connectix.com

I have made some further comments about the program over on the Mac forum, where the program's arrival was commented upon because Connectix is best known for a Virtual PC for Mac, which lets you run Windows on an Apple Mac.
http://www.dvdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ubb/Forum12/HTML/000225.html

Bob C

bcrabtree
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Joined: Mar 7 1999

Well, if you go and read the thread over in the Mac forum, as detailed in my last posting, you'll see that there would seem to be no way at all that Virtual PC for Windows will be a suitable substitute for the old, slow and boring (but proven) methods of switching between Windows OSs.

However, in my case, there are a number of reasons why I would want to have an second OS instantly available on my Win2K machine (I set up WinME today as the "guest" OS), but these are not, I think, typical of the needs of video editors.

Pity!

Bob C

TomFP
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Joined: Jul 19 2001

Latest NT driver (2.5 Build 0022) works (for me)!
http://www.dazzle-europe.com/m_us_set_download.html

Running W2kPro, with no service packs.
I checked out the above TechNote 21071, and resigned myself to going from ACPI to Standard PC. Pleasantly, my machine was already setup that way.

I had no luck with the 01.02.99 driver, but the 04.08.2000 Media Studio Pro 6 version worked a charm! Ran setup, rebooted, and all was fine. Seems to work ok with Media Studio Pro 5.2, too.

I'm using an old TNT-1 card, and it looks like you don't get the overlay preview anymore (I use an external monitor anyway).

TomFP
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Joined: Jul 19 2001

To update my previous post, the WinNT4 drivers do mostly work...
I get no overlay on TNT-1, and the MediaStudio Pro triming tool seems to show only every second field (eg every half frame) on the external monitor. Playback is still continuous and sound sync is ok.

However... I get the dreaded blue screen error 0x76 (pages left locked) after I exit from most applications which handle video files. Ulead Media Studio and Sound Forge both do it, but not FastCap or the Windows media player.

Other than this nasty problem, Win2k is far more stable than Win98SE.