UK Freelance Videographers required

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magikroom
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Joined: Oct 15 2009

YellAdworks (part of the Yell.com Group) are looking to set up a Nationwide network of Freelance Videographers for the purpose of providing 30 to 60 second, online adverts to their clients.

Videographers will be required to film at a Customers premises, using own equipment for a period of 2/3 Hours, Film the relative Footage and provide the 'Raw' data in digital form for internal editing.

We are at the initial stages of development and fees, terms etc have not yet been clarified, however we will be looking to pay somewhere in the region of £100 - £150 per job.

For expressions of interest and to find out more, please contact

Jamie Morden
Videography Manager
j.morden@yelladworks.com

SimonMW
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Joined: Nov 16 2004

You'll have to be more specific. What type of equipment do you want these shot on? What type of mics etc? Is any lighting needed?

Even though the shooting time is only 2 to 3 hours, with travel and other factors that will still be around half a day or maybe more. Are you offering travel expenses? Most, including me don't usually do half days, and even on the rare occasions that I do, certainly not for £100! If I get another job coming through for a full day and I've committed to a job such as that I'd be £400 out of pocket!

I know some who are desperate for work may go for this offer, but from my point of view such a rate is insulting, even for newcomers. Viewing it as "only 2 to 3 hours work" is the totally wrong way of looking at it. Company economics do not work like that.

If I worked on one of your jobs a day at your lower rate I would get £400 a week. In the rest of the time when I get back to the office I am working on marketing my company, or doing paperwork and admin, tasks that I don't get directly paid for. Since 99% of video jobs are not half days I will be unlikely to fill the rest of the day with actual video work. So assuming even a bog standard 39 hour week that includes your video shooting and unpaid work such as marketing and admin, with your rates I would be getting paid the equivalent of £10 an hour! Do you think that is a decent living wage for something as highly skilled as video camera operation?

I don't know about anyone else here, but I didn't spend all the years learning what I do, paying thousands over the years for courses and equipment only to have someone offer me a paltry £100, even if it is a half day job!

And that's before expenses such as travel, office costs etc have been deducted. Sorry, but you clearly have no idea of how the video industry works, nor the economics of the people who work in it.

Further more I have been looking at these services being offered by the likes of Yell and its competitors such as Thomson Local. Thomson are charging £1300 (special offer) for the service, plus a hefty amount to actually pay to have the video on the listing every year. Touch Local are doing a similar service for £999.

Now, if you are charging a similar amount for your service the offer of £100-£150 is doubly insulting because looking at the quality of the final results there is only half a day editing really required due to their total simplicity and template style editing. So you must be taking a rather large portion of the money if you are doing that editing internally (where I assume your guys are paid a normal office worker rate perhaps?) I do admit that the Yell video adverts are a lot higher in quality than the Thomson and Touch Local ones, but my personal opinion is that anyone who accepts this sort of rate, even using DV, should really think twice. This is the very reason why it is getting so much harder to make a living doing this stuff.

pkbristol
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Joined: Jan 23 2008

That's why i don't do half days, i charge a day rate to "turn up", then i'll work up to 8 hours for free.
So if i'm on location for 1 hour or 8 hours the cost is the same, over 8 hours is cost per hour.
Like Simon says, half days just don't end up being just a half day when you factor in travel etc.

Paul.

magikroom
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Joined: Oct 15 2009

Thank you for your detailed reply and thank you to all of the expressions of interest I have had so far, I will be reviewing your replies over the weekend and will contact you all early next week.

As mentioned previously, we are in the initial stages of development and my intention is to gauge interest and will supply more in-depth details and a list of requirements (including kit) when I am contacted personally.

Simon, I understand some of your concerns and as mentioned, certain aspects are yet to be clarified. In terms of what the final cost is to the client, that is not an area that I deal with, my task is to manage the internal/external Videographers. If you would like to contact me to discuss your concerns and the points you've raised, then please do as I would like to deal with each of your assumptions.

Thank you and have a nice weekend.

Jamie Morden
Videography Manager
j.morden@yelladworks.com

Chrome
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Joined: May 26 1999

I'm with Simon on this 100% and would certainly urge any APV members to treat this and other 'golden opportunities' with the contempt they deserve... at least until there is a valid explaination of how it will be undertaken. It may be yet another attempt to exploit many of the 'videomakers' out there in order to get cheap content for a commercial operation who will potentially make big-bucks out of this.

Yell has (finally) realised print advertising and physical directories are dead (or dying) and are now trying to reposition themselves in order to leverage their existing on-line directory offering. Research last year showed 78% of all people in the UK now look on-line for products and services first, even if only finding services in their local area.

I advertised with Yell (and Yellow Pages) for a couple of years at considerable expense, in both wedding and corporate video production, with the largest adverts in my area, but cancelled all my advertising when it transpired I didn't get one decent lead... only a couple of "how much are your wedding videos" sytle enquiries from people looking based on price alone... needless to say I didn't even bother converting them to sales.

Let's face it a fairly basic on-line advert with Yell and similar is in excess of £500 a year if you get listed in a few categories. I wonder how much they will charge the advertiser for a video based advert? Perhaps those advertisers would be best served by finding a video maker for themselves and making a low-cost advert that can be used anywhere they want to. :)

To Jamie directly - Those that will work for these kind of fees (unless your putting like three jobs a day their way), will mostly not produce very good quality content; that's why there are not many companies working this kind of business model... It's been tried and failed before.

Steve
Director, Association of Professional Videomakers

magikroom
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Joined: Oct 15 2009

Well, this has certainly turned into an emotive issue, not something I intended, but understand. This subject obviously brings up a number of issues, but please understand I mean no disrespect and fully realise the amount of time, effort and expense that goes into developing your skills. I'd be happy to discuss this in a new thread on my own personal experience, but what I have posted here in the 'Situations Vacant' is a genuine offer of paid work, if it is something that is of no interest to some, then I understand and there is no need to contact me.

Thank you all for your comments

Jamie

paulears
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There is a current running issue with Bectu - a proper union that I'm a press card carrying member of. Their rate card is public viewing. However, I have no problem whatsoever in taking on these kind of short jobs. At the present time, I have 3 different rates for work we carry out of this kind - where essentially we arrive, shoot, deliver the product electronically - and forget it. The kind of fees offered here are not by any means a full day rate - but the job will presumably be very local, cost little in transport, and not require any post work. I do a few of the award ceremony 'can't get there' messages, and many are done in less than an hour.

I don't see what is on offer as insulting, or degrading or any other emotive work. It's just different work - and I'm certainly interested - I'd not turn down daily rate work for it, but if I can go out and get back in a short period of time, why not?

Dugi
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"and fully realise the amount of time, effort and expense that goes into developing your skills."

"however we will be looking to pay somewhere in the region of £100 - £150 per job."

Stuff and nonsense magikroom and I suspect that you know it.

Experienced people here will see through this and if your remark "but what I have posted here in the 'Situations Vacant' is a genuine offer of paid work, if it is something that is of no interest to some, then I understand and there is no need to contact me." reeks of Yorkshire Mills.

We've had too many "genuine offers" in this business that really we can do without.
Ours skills, of which you make mention, need to be truly recognised, maintained, appreciated and rewarded.

Interesting first post though.( SIGH!)

magikroom
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Joined: Oct 15 2009

Thanks Dugi...you know, I really am surprised at the comments. I've placed the same details in other forums, social networks and soon to be 'jobsite' ads etc But there seems to be a little (understatement) bit of negativity...something that needs to be explored a little more, the social aspects, financial aspects and even acknowledgement of skills, but I have to express and emphasise that what we are offering is something that Videographers accept or not...

I don't believe that Freelancers will be doing one job a week, but multiple jobs per day at their choosing, but am surprised at the response on here, guess people are imposing their views on a corporate identity, which happens to be me...lol

Thanks

Jamie

Paul Llewellyn
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Joined: Mar 24 2006

Hi Jamie,

It'd be nice to put the negativity down to it being the end of the week, but it's just these kinds of reactions that have kept me away from discussions on these boards for the few years that I've been a member.

There are other similar sites to this one that are far more welcoming, and perhaps less cynical. It's a shame as there's obviously a lot of experienced, talented people here.

Ah well...

Have a good weekend everyone!

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007

I appreciate the broadcast rates that can be demanded for that type of work if I am using my HPX2700, but I am already doing this sort of infomercial with the 301 for the rates quoted, I see it as bread and butter, pearl and dean type ads that are not going to win any awards but are viral video type clips to show what people will get if they say visit a restaurant etc. The alt is to let the Z1 wobbly cam and low cost wedding guys corner this emerging market and as stated if I knock off three of these a day I will get £450.

I also think it is a very good way for companies to show their products or services and is it not better to have a proper cameraperson shoot these than £500 dixons cam uncle jims.

I did one for my own pub two years ago and it was pieced together with stills from the pub walls, a bit of music (non copyright) and me doing a cod geordie voice over.

I have also recently done a video for my financial advisor for his web site and whilst he was a test case the budget for that would have been £250 all in as I edited it as well, it was one days work in total!

Its a matter of you take it or leave it but bear in mind that there is nothing being made here in the north east so I either do weddings (dont want to) or lower my rates for infomercials and indie productions to generate new business.

As a final note to Yell though dont expect a whizz bang commerical for your client they will get what they pay for at the end of the day and £150 will get you 2-3 hrs inc travel and set up time as even my hourly rate with 301 kit is £50 per hr.

P.S. I have seen an indie on mandy.com who was wanting 2000 of these ads produced for YELL in two weeks, the final payment for the fully shot and edited by you advert was £50 each if it was accepted and uploaded, now that is really taking the wee wee!

paulears
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The commercials rate for a 10 hour day for a camera op is currently £441. For factual TV, the 10 hour day minimum is £319. This obviously doesn't include kit rental, and for high prestige jobs many people could perhaps argue that the correct rate would be the lighting cameramans rates, which are higher.

Some people on this forum are seasoned pros, running their own businesses, others keen amateurs doing video work at weekends. Plenty of new posts come from people wanting to make video programmes on no budget at all.

We're presumably in business to make money, and with outgoings fixed, totally unlinked to what work I take on - although I'd love to be able to stand on my principles and say NO to a lower paying job, I'd rather have some money than no money - and worse still, saying no and seeing somebody else take the job wouldn't work for me. I have a number of regular clients who will not pay me more than I charged for the last job - and if I pushed for an extra £100, they'd give the work to another freelancer and thgink nothing of it.

It's a free market. One of the big unions is currently in a bit of bother because they named and shamed some of their members for doing exactly what we're talking about here - taking a lower rate than the union approved of. The musicians union is quite strong, and stick to the rules - they think it works, but it doesn't - many professional musicians now get less work because other non-union people are prepared to accept poor deals - but surely, this is just how a market economy works.

In this case, it is clear that if you don't like the terms, don't apply, but for those that do - good luck to you.

I'm guessing 2-3 hours travel - as in 100-130miles (?) isn't what they plan. If there is a client in Norwich, they'll look for a cameraman from Norwich who can knock it off an an hour or two, including travel. For a quarter of a day and maybe £5 fuel this sounds pretty ok to me.

Sorry.

Dugi
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I've placed the same details in other forums, social networks and soon to be 'jobsite' ads etc But there seems to be a little (understatement) bit of negativity...

I would love to see "details in other forums".

Do you have a link(s)

Dugi

foxvideo
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I've kept my head down on here for a while, got a bit fed up with some of the bickering that was developing, I found other sites to go that were informative and constructional and, where possible I could add comment if I thought I had something to contribute, however this thread was pointed out to me and FWIW I offer my 2p's worth.

It's interesting to see some names FOR the project I didn't expect, others against the project I had expected to see. Personally, I emailed to Jamie to express an interest. In today's market and recession I'll take anything I can get, if I don't do it then someone else maybe with lower spec kit or less experience will do it instead, YELL might then not bother to use them again when they see the results and I'm the loser as my name is not on their books for next time. This whole project is about freelancing for a few hours here and there - Maybe some of you have got strict terms as to how much you get paid and for how many hours you work for it and if you're currently getting it then good luck to you, but for those of us without that sort of work, this will help to pay the mortgage just fine.

I agree with Gary, 2 or 3 of these in a day would be worth doing for a reasonable £300 or £450 and would supplement my current income from editing, by the time you've taken out fuel (I'm going to presume tapes would be supplied or paid for by YELL), there's a reasonable return for a day's work IF you've got nothing else on.

A quick bit of Googling shows Jamie is/was PROBABLY the Digital Media Manger for http://www.mybrumtv.co.uk/ - a quick look on that site site shows some examples off the type of thing he'll probably be looking for - not exactly Oscar type stuff but well within the scope of many people on here and again, IMO a reasonable source of extra income.

Questioning Jamie's offer or intentions on here will not prevent him from taking his idea for YELL forward, if he feels alienated here he'll just get his operators from elsewhere, so if contributors here really object to his offer / payment terms then the simple answer is don't apply and let those who feel the offer of a few hundred quid for what should be a simple job for many of us, get on with it.

Ducks back down again......

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

MAGLINK
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Well said Paul & Dave some very good points there, I have also e-mailled Jamie as I applied for a job with Yell three months ago to help define this new market from a broadcast point of view.

From my perspective in the north east Bectu and the unions have done nothing about the decline of ITV and Ofcom has been totally useless and actually allowed them to go back on the franchise commitments that they signed up for in 1992.

The only broadcast work up here in Tyne Tees, Border and YTV land is news and ITV is now wanting to remove that from their business too. The BBC has also been London centric but even with intervention from government the only expansion into the regions is in manchester and glasgow.

So we have a to look at new markets and re-define our working lives, I have worked in broadcast for over 30 years and retired to buy a pub but sadly the government and the public apathy/medical do gooders about community spirit has caused the decline of that industry too.

As I am unable to get work in London the media centre of the country either I have to look at the future and where new markets and business can be created and the internet is there as the new emerging market, it is also being defined and I find that I am being more creative doing on-line work than being a broadcast puppet.

OK if other people choose not to do things like this then that is fine and I have met numerous pro broadcast camera people who have the white gloves attitude and would not lower themselves to do such low quality work at these rates.

SimonMW
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Quote:
I don't believe that Freelancers will be doing one job a week, but multiple jobs per day at their choosing

For your project or in general? If you are talking about generally then no. It is extremely rare to get a true half day shoot that allows you to be able to go off and then do another half day shoot. It simply doesn't happen unless you are a news cameraman.

I am utterly astounded at people here saying they would rather take the paltry money than nothing at all. With all business expenses accounted for, depreciation on equipment and all other factors, you might think that £150 is better than nothing. It isn't. The fact is that you are most probably LOSING money by doing it!

Simply, if you have committed to a job for £150, what happens if you get a call that offers your full rate on the same day? What happens if you get a call for a project that offers you a few days work, but one of those days conflicts with a Yell job? Ooops, you can't take it. This wouldn't be ideal even if you were getting a full rate from Yell, but at least it would be a full rate. But having to turn down such work for £150?!

Taking this sort of work out of desperation is utterly ridiculous. Gary, do you think Yell themselves are doing this to make such a small amount of money? Of course not. They'll be making money hand over fist from this.

This isn't about being used to a higher rate and not 'lowering' ourselves to this level of work. This is about making a living. Like I said, if you ended up only working for these guys could you live off it? Answer? No. Would you be getting lots of other half day jobs to keep you going the rest of the day? Answer, not bloody likely.

Rates are based on;

1. Expenditure needed to run the business.
2. Cost of equipment and its depreciation.
3. Cost of possibly upgrading equipment.
4. Skillset of the job.
5. Cost of living
6. Account for possibility of 'dry' periods

The company needs to be able to make a profit, otherwise everything that comes in is immediately going out. Much as it is tempting to take £150 just because it is better than nothing when business is slow, lowering your worth or lowering your rates should be the absolute last resort.

Taking such a job might be okay(ish) if there are two of you and there is a full rate job to go to for one of you and the Yell thing is some icing for the other partner to go off and do before they do some admin the rest of the day. But certainly for an individual I maintain that these rates are insulting. Especially given the outright profit Yell would be making. We all know what the group charges for ads in the paper based publication.

Quote:
I have to look at the future and where new markets and business can be created and the internet is there as the new emerging market

Gary, just because something is on the internet, that doesn't suddenly go to mean that all of a sudden production values and rates go to crap.

Regardless, these Yell type adverts cannot really work properly. A few companies may try them, but their ROI will be minimal, just like normal Yellow Pages ads. I've looked into this sort of thing so many times. Small businesses generally cannot afford that sort of expenditure even for a really low budget video. They would be better off if they already had an effective website of their own.

I've done this for a few companies. The website, the video, full submission to Google, esp Google Local listings, which to be frank IMHO will finish Yell etc due to the fact that it is totally free, allows free submission of photos, free submission of YouTube based videos, allows you to integrate the listing with Google Maps and Google Earth. The video can be used anywhere the company wishes, and in the case of Google their company listing is effective and, crucially, free.

This sort of service makes me some good money, but also offers far more ROI for the client in question than some restricted Yell watermarked video. And because I have control over the editing as well I can ensure a much higher quality end result.

I like to offer value. But I'm not going to prostitute my skills to do it!

magikroom
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Again, thank you for your comments and again, if this is of no interest to some then please do not get in contact. I am happy to discuss in another thread on my own personal experience, however as mentioned before, this is a Situations Vacant thread.

And while I will probably seek to remove this ad shortly on here due to the nature of it's direction, the speculation and assumptions will only detract from people who are interested. If a general discussion on new emerging markets and my experience within them is something that may be of interest, then please start a new thread in the relevant section and PM me.

I think the points have been made and a line should be drawn.

Jamie

MAGLINK
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Any other people receive an e-mail this morning?

There is a request for us to upload our own material so if this is a genuine offer of employment why do we have to do this to prove your systems?

Surely Yell should be making sure that all their material is covered by clients rights and copyright to yell adworks.

Also preference will be given to in house team first so is this just a way of finding out how we operate and then copying our systems?

Over to you Jamie.

Paul Llewellyn
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Didn't get an email, but then I didn't get a reply from a DM I sent to Jamie.

JG, could you copy and paste the email, please? I'm not sure what is meant in your message by "prove your systems".

Cheers!

magikroom
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Ok, The reason for asking to upload material is because not everybody sent me a link and plus, it's a better way for me to keep track of everybody as the response has been great...a lot more than I thought. You do not have to "Prove" anything, the beta site is something that I personally set up just to aid me in organising things initially and in no way will be used for any other purpose, sorry but there is nothing underhand going on here, I am just extremely busy with other work.

We currently operate a small team in each location who fulfill Photo Video as well as Custom, however I don't understand the problem of using internal Videographers, this make perfect business sense. As for copying 'your' systems, I do not need to do this as I ran a succesful team of internal and external Videographers, Web Developers and Graphic Designers which culminated in a host of online websites:

mybrumtv.co.uk
bostoncollegetv.co.uk
educ8tv.co.uk

We also use a 3rd Party Company already and fully know their systems. I suggest any of you that have contacted me and recieved my reply, to call me on the number I provided if you have any concerns, but I want to thank those of you who are positive and pro-active.

magikroom
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Replies
Paul Llewellyn wrote:
Didn't get an email, but then I didn't get a reply from a DM I sent to Jamie.

JG, could you copy and paste the email, please? I'm not sure what is meant in your message by "prove your systems".

Cheers!

All emails I have recieved have been replied to, if you are still interested, but genuinely so, please contact me at

j.morden@yelladworks.com

MAGLINK
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Thats fine but requesting other peoples material to be placed on a site that is nothing to do with Yell Adworks the company you are representing is not a good way to get showreels.

Two of us here have confirmed that the streaming that is being used on your test site is very very slow and with no reference to Yell Adworks this does not give them a very pro presentation.

I hope you also will not mind that I have contacted Yell Adworks to confirm that this is genuine as I personally applied for the position of manager of videography in June and have a letter from them saying this project was on hold due to the change in the economy.

Paul Llewellyn
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Hi Jamie,

I've now sent you the text of my DM as an email.

Cheers!

magikroom
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JGNattrass wrote:
Thats fine but requesting other peoples material to be placed on a site that is nothing to do with Yell Adworks the company you are representing is not a good way to get showreels.

Two of us here have confirmed that the streaming that is being used on your test site is very very slow and with no reference to Yell Adworks this does not give them a very pro presentation.

I hope you also will not mind that I have contacted Yell Adworks to confirm that this is genuine as I personally applied for the position of manager of videography in June and have a letter from them saying this project was on hold due to the change in the economy.

Thanks for your reply, I now understand. I know nothing of your personal situation and it is clear that this is of no interest.

regards

Jamie

MAGLINK
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magikroom wrote:
Thanks for your reply, I now understand. I know nothing of your personal situation and it is clear that this is of no interest.

regards

Jamie

Hmm the plot thickens I would be interested in freelance work as you advertised but you seem to have no association in your web sites with Yell Ads and we all feel better checking up on this further.

This is the real Yell Adworks site:http://www.yelladworks.com/en.aspx

Your YellAdworksVideo.com seems to have nothing to do with them.

magikroom
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JGNattrass wrote:
Hmm the plot thickens I would be interested in freelance work as you advertised but you seem to have no association in your web sites with Yell Ads and we all feel better checking up on this further.

This is the real Yell Adworks site:http://www.yelladworks.com/en.aspx

Your YellAdworksVideo.com seems to have nothing to do with them.

As mentioned in the email, I set up the site to aid me within the task of Managing the Freelance network, the fact that the site has online conversion enables my team to use the site instead of having to work on YouTube or similar. Everyone who has contacted me has recieved an email from me this morning using my email address "j.morden@yelladworks.com" which is the same domain as our company address. I really cannot see where this is going and if you recieved my email this morning and have questions, you have my office phone number on it...by all means, give me a call.

Thanks

Jamie

foxvideo
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magikroom wrote:
As mentioned in the email, I set up the site to aid me within the task of Managing the Freelance network, the fact that the site has online conversion enables my team to use the site instead of having to work on YouTube or similar. Everyone who has contacted me has recieved an email from me this morning using my email address "j.morden@yelladworks.com" which is the same domain as our company address. I really cannot see where this is going and if you recieved my email this morning and have questions, you have my office phone number on it...by all means, give me a call.

Thanks

Jamie

http://www.recieved.co.uk/ ;)

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

magikroom
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lol Fox, thank you for that...the word always gets me! :-)

MAGLINK
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Just to clarify Jamie and I have exchanged e-mails and certain queries regarding this have been settled.

Other forum members have also been contacted by me to keep them up to date.

As I said in a previous posts this is a great opportunity to open up potential new markets but as with all things related to web based content the business models are yet to be defined, this goes for all aspects of web media as people expect to get content for nothing at the present.

I am happy to assist in any way I can as I have been researching IPTV and new ways of creating income streams for the past two years.

dart17
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Joined: Feb 12 2009

Jamie, email expressing interest sent... awaiting reply.

Gary: I would appreciate being kept upto date too.

Many thanks.
Brian

MAGLINK
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Its all gone rather quiet on this front!:confused:

Barry Hunter
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I submitted my details but havn`t heard back :-(

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

colin rowe
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Submitted details. Have had 2 emails

Colin Rowe

dart17
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Barry Hunter wrote:
I submitted my details but havn`t heard back :-(

Nor me, still absolutely no info here.

Any one had any work?

Brian

MAGLINK
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Edit note: "Insert visuals of tumbleweed crossing desert here" :D

MAGLINK
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You just got to love these Yell guys:eek:
http://www.mandy.com/1/jobs3.cfm?v=36402182

They make Endemol look almost human!!!

Maxwell
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Joined: Jan 13 2007

O.k. this issue of rates has been mention many times. How do we encourage the younger members to get experience in this field. I think those who have the confidence should have a go, if the person is willing to take them.
But for us to keep saying for what, and for what not rate we would work has been well documented on this forum.

Chrome
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Joined: May 26 1999

Its not about what rates we will or will not work for... it's about exploitation... which is not fair on anyone, especially those desperate to gain relevant experience.

This from the link given a couple of posts ago on Mandy...

Quote:
We pay 15 UKP per completed 20 second film

When you consider their website informs their clients that the basic price is £399 and the video maker has to provide their own kit and pay all their own travel expenses etc. Then it just illustrates it exactly. Nobody is against people making a profit... but this is just taking the proverbial. :mad:

Effectively they take the booking and send out the videomaker, who is expected to do everything else upto the final clip for £15!!

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007

I agree with Chrome its about large companies exploiting people and in particular young people.

A well known huge media company make a programme on BBC1 called total wipeout and to get around the EU laws they make it in Argentina, they have recently advertised for young people to come and get some "experience" trying out the games for them. I suspect that they actually become the contestants and an all expenses trip to south america is the fee, of course if they get injured the laws of this country don't apply and they don't even have to get them to sign a release form.

I have other evidence of what large companies do to "give media graduates experience" but it all senses it is just them exploiting young people who are desperate to work in media, they play on this with Big Brother type programmes and the turnaround of the staff they do ever employ is great as they soon get sick of being expected to do the job for next to nothing in London.

Another large company gets commissions from the BBC and half of the fee goes straight in the pension fund for the directors, the 50% left is what the programme budget is and they then employ young people at minimum wage to make the programmes.

I am not against people getting experience but larger companies play on their eagerness and then seek to exploit it for their own huge gains.
Yell are a world wide company and if they did this sort of thing in a far eastern country there would be a huge outcry, what then makes it acceptable here.

Maxwell
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Its a bit like buying clothes from foreign countries. So we know the pitfalls. But what is the solution?
A agency for young video makers with a proven track record off making industrial mini videos or able to perform the basic requirement.

Rob James
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One answer might be to stop "training" so many people for jobs that don't exist.
For example, the UK turns out more qualified togs in a year than there are tog jobs in the whole of Europe! (And that's the total number of jobs NOT vacancies)

I believe it is immoral and deeply cynical to raise false expectations in thousands of students per year while charging exhorbitant fees and getting people into massive debt. Incidentally, the private sector is even worse in this regard.

I realise a certain level of over supply is desirable but I think that it would be better if one of the pre-requisite qualifications for practical media degrees was a job to go to at the end. I.e. a firm statement of intent to employ the student once qualified.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

MAGLINK
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Indeed Rob I was told recently that 40,000 media students are being trained each year, if us pros with 30 years in the industry struggle to get any work how are students even going to get a look in.

As we know major facility houses such as videosonics and sanctuary in london have gone and a good friend who is a major tv drama sound recordist has done very little work last year and has only three days so far this year.

I cant even get any work training the next generation as I constantly get told that the media courses dont want ex industry people who just anecdotal scenarios.

The same people also tell me thaty they struggle to get media students work with the bigger companies coz they dont have any real experience.

In a world of increased and expanding media it just doesnt add up:confused:

SimonMW
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Trouble with 'Media' courses is that they don't focus on any one specific thing. Its a pointless thing. Might as well have a degree in stone sculpture.

Here's something interesting. A little birdie told me that the director for the new Red Dwarf series that was recently shown on Dave had such a low budget that he had to buy his own cameras! Whether or not it was true (I do trust my source however) I wouldn't be surprised the way things are going!

This Yell deal is exactly as I suspected at the beginning of this thread. Same goes for Thompson. I've had a few companies telling me that they have been offered videos by those companies. They declined after I showed them the economics of what they were getting.

Rob James
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Exactly! It doesn't add up! Either the majority of video production is going to be reduced to near 'hobby' status or something has to change.

Nothing wrong with a degree in stone sculpture.
Everyone knows where you stand. If people like your work, they buy it. (for whatever the market will bear.) If you're good you can also get work restoring gargoyles on old churches etc.

When young and keen and unestablished, most people serious about working in the industry are prepared to put themselves out for little or no money in order to impress possible employers/clients. Nothing new there. I was doing it nearly 40 years ago. The thing that has changed is that even once you've 'made it'. I.e. you are working on broadcast material, the producers still want charity work. Not necessarily the producers fault. It's the commissioners. And, while people are prepared to work for peanuts, even when they are not monkeys, they will get away with it.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

SimonMW
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It does seem at times that some really do want video to become a hobbiest activity! What has to change is that media students and film students need to have it rammed into their naive little heads that a) they need to charge properly for any work that they do, and b) if they don't they are only helping to destroy their own career path!

When will these idiots realise that a video business (ie one where you have had to have invested in equipment and skills) is not economically viable by charging ridiculously low rates. Unless of course you are a producer who has a multitude of people working for a pittance for you while you take great fat commission.

And this is what it has come down to. These guys who are paying these silly rates have no investment in skills or equipment. They have an office and a telephone, and that's about it. Everybody else runs around for them. Now, while this means that the producers can make a ton of money the cameraman and editor cannot. When will they realise that they are being taken for a ride?

Rob James
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I think they all know they are being taken for a ride.
If you had just invested a not inconsiderable amount of money and several years of your life in training for a career you have a passion for, and the only way you can get practical experience and build a reputation is to work for buttons what do you do?
You could stick to your principles and never work again or you can grit your teeth, take what you can get, smile and hope to prove yourself worthy of proper remuneration later.

Once again, the problem is the number of "qualified" people chasing any available work in this industry.

Ironically, those coming into the business via the old routes as school leavers will be earning sensible money by the same age the graduates start looking for work.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

tom hardwick
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Rob James wrote:
Ironically, those coming into the business via the old routes as school leavers will be earning sensible money by the same age the graduates start looking for work.

A very good point Rob, and one that various parties will be addressing in their election manifestos this year. To add to your comment - the graduates will be starting at the bottom rung but yet also have a £10k overdraft to attack. Too many graduates and not enough apprentices.

SimonMW
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Quote:
To add to your comment - the graduates will be starting at the bottom rung but yet also have a £10k overdraft to attack.

There is a difference I find between media wannabe's and other degree students. One thing I hear over and over again from businesses is that many graduates will not accept starting from lower positions. They have had it drilled into them at university that they should go straight to a position of authority and status. So many graduates are turning down perfectly good jobs because they see them as being below them!

Yet media students seem to be the opposite. Possibly because in our industry it is more a case of who you know rather than what you know. Why aren't these media students seeing out work with established companies? There are many around who are large enough.

Granted there are far more media student graduates than there are job positions. But that's the Governments fault. And now they are going to encourage this silliness even more by making video camera operation a part of the curriculum!

Incidentally, I have heard back from the company that made that Mandy advert after I 'questioned' the ethics going on there. The videos are nothing to do with Yell.

I still don't accept that it is a good way to do things. They are expecting, in a day that they class as between 10am to 4pm (winter daylight hours they say) to yield between 7-8 videos of 20secs each. No sound recording needed (so quite what the consist of is anyones guess).

They prescribe that each video consists of 10 shots, and they calculate it taking 10 mins to do all of them and then 5mins to edit.

If (in my mind) by some miracle you manage to do eight of these shorts in a day it will return £120. I suppose for a college leaver with a cheap camera who is willing to drive themselves into the ground that is not awful.

I still find it very hard to believe that there would be that much work available in any given area (since they say they only send people to shoot in their immediate locality).

Maxwell
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Reading the amount of feed-back on this touchy subject and may wonderful professional in this field are unable to get work. makes me wonder if one could hit back.
With the amount of commercial television at our service, what are the scope of outside independent productions selling a video production to those medias?.

Rob James
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Tom, Couldn't agree more. not enough apprentices and too many graduates.
When I was in a position to hire people, I was very careful not to take those who were not prepared to start at the bottom and do relatively boring work for a few years, regardless of their qualifications. Not everyone can be a star and we need dedicated people to do the grunt work.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

davemitch
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Don't know whether this is going a little off the original topic, but I've been reading these posts about getting into the industry with some concern. I've got no interest in getting into the media - long term apprenticeship served telecoms engineer, looking forward to retiring (although that seems to be getting further away!). My concern is that my younger daughter is currently studying for an HND in Digital Film Production at university. She originally wanted to be a director, leaning toward film, but with the costs of uni accomodation, took this course in Northampton, meaning she could stay at home. Originally she wanted to direct eventually, starting at the bottom, but now in the second year she feels that she'd rather edit (they use Final Cut on Mac Pro at uni)and she seems to be quite good at it! My worry is that really we don't live in the centre of the media industry, and she doesn't really want to move away. Most industries are in the doldrums at the minute, so is she going to get a job in an industry she really wants to be part of? She is currently talking about taking a year out next year (HND is a 2 year course) as she's been in full time education since she was 5 and will be 20 at the end of the course. She may then consider upgrading the HND to a degree, but we keep pulling her leg about working on a supermarket till with a Film Production qualification. Maybe the way forward is to do something else, and do film making as a hobby, she has already made a short film for the London Sci Fi 48 hour film competition with her classmates, and enter festivals and other competitions to hopefully get her name known to break into the industry. I'm just concerned that she could have been wasting her time at Uni?

Dave Mitchell Lenovo Z570 laptop, iPhone, dodgy old Sony Hi8 handycam

Rob James
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Dave, I feel for you. I have an 18 year old son who wants to do film at university despite all the dire warnings from his dad who has been ekeing a living from 'the media' for more years than he cares to remember.

I don't think you should discourage her. Someone has to be the next Spielberg! But you should encourage her to be realistic and to take other work to pay the bills. It can be done but it requires a lot of luck as well as skill and dedication.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

Dugi
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davemitch wrote:
Maybe the way forward is to do something else, and do film making as a hobby, she has already made a short film for the London Sci Fi 48 hour film competition with her classmates, and enter festivals and other competitions to hopefully get her name known to break into the industry. I'm just concerned that she could have been wasting her time at Uni?

That's it Dave. Absolutely the way forward.

A camera assistant I had for a Discovery Channel series 15 years ago had just completed his Media degree at Uni and was paid £5 a day by the Production Company " for the experience". The producer worked the lads nuts off with menial tasks (hotel, restaurant, taxi, airline bookings) and the kid got nothing, zilch, nadda for his efforts in terms of learning the business. Each time I tried to show him something the AD would whisk him away to fetch or carry. It was a disgrace.
Now he's a doctor using video conferencing in his practice.
Hell will freeze over before we witness a long string of successful British Directors coming from media students.
I taught at Beaconsfield Film School for many years (9) and the only star we produced was Nick Park. Some other students from that time are still enjoying a 'kind of' living but many others have left the business to find more success.

Oh and - University is NEVER a waste of time.

DAVE M
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If she's taking a year out then I'd suggest using the time to get a job as a runner. She might need to save up to be able to afford it, but it beats spending a year overseas sitting about and shows some bottle.

I'd worry about getting a foot in the door rather than as an "editor" "director" or whatever

Rob James
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DAVE M wrote:
If she's taking a year out then I'd suggest using the time to get a job as a runner. She might need to save up to be able to afford it, but it beats spending a year overseas sitting about and shows some bottle.

I'd worry about getting a foot in the door rather than as an "editor" "director" or whatever

Couldn't agree more! It really works.

FWIW I started in this business as a film porter and would never have been considered for the sound job I started out in had I not been 'on the spot'.

Rob The picture is only there to keep the sound in sync

SimonMW
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Quote:
had just completed his Media degree at Uni and was paid £5 a day by the Production Company " for the experience".

What's more astounding is that it could be illegal. Yet they get away with it all the time.

I'd second what everyone else said. Getting a foot in the door is more important. The big problem I have with media courses is that this industry isn't like going into something like HR where you go to a job interview and then get a nice 9-5 job before working your way up to a managerial position.

Most in the industry wouldn't care if a person was the Prince of Persia or a Welsh Collie, as long as they could demonstrate through past work that they can a) get the job done and b) do it well. Going for a position as a runner is a good way to see how things tick in production. Contacts are made, and she can keep making stuff in her own time to build up a portfolio.

MAGLINK
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Looking at mandy.com the best options for media graduates is to go for one of the obscure non production jobs at the beeb as there seem to be at least 15-20 of them advertised every day:http://www.mandy.com/1/jobs2.cfm?t=ukew

Archer
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Hi everyone

I have been visiting this website for a while and sitting in the background watching, listening and learning

I own a company that is using freelancer cameramen for short, quick videos, and before someone shoots me, hangs me from a tree or calls me the spawn of Satan, I will point out that we are not in any connected with nor do we place any of our work with any company that may or not be connected with Yell, nor do we exploit anyone and nor do we pay £15 an hour and pocket a fortune

Some of the comments on this string had actually almost put me off approaching freelance cameramen to do our work

But we persevered and we are very pleased to say that we have recruited over 70 freelance cameramen nationwide for our short video work, the vast majority of these are very experienced, highly qualified and highly respected in the industry

I was actually very pleasantly surprised at how the majority (but not all) of those that contacted us, or we contacted have accepted our products and services as an add on to their working month

For some, our service simply did not appeal to them, and that is fine, if we were all the same life would be truly as boring as hell

We have even had an article on us produced, (I would point out, without our knowledge,) by one of the video industry professional bodies who picked up what we were doing. This certainly did surprise me as our email and telephone went mental for quite a few days and we had many freelancers who are members of that body registering with us

Work that our company can offer is flexible, profitable to both the cameraman and our company and is split very fairly, we even make a point of that when we speak to people, the jobs last around an hour and are not meant to replace the full days shooting or a weeks worth of work, but to add to it.

Sitting down is good for a rest, and we all need to do that, but if you can earn extra when things are quiet and are happy to do so, then why not ? it is the freelancers choice

We are always interested in talking to the people who want to add to their workload, or simply want to know more about what we do, if that is you then please feel free to contact me to discuss what we offer, it is completely up to you if you think it can suit you

All companies offering short term or quick work are not ripping people off, I know we don't

Dugi
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Do you have a link to your website or more info as to what it is you do?

Dugi
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Well I got a PM -

"Hi Dugi

Thanks for the post, I am available on 01822 XXXXXX or you can have a look at viewedme.com the website is in Beta at the moment, with a really good new site sitting behind it being tested

We are very interested in speaking to good freelancers who want to earn that bit extra with a friendly flexible company

Please call or email at any time

Regards

Ian"

I always get a tad uneasy when people cant be open about what they're doing Ian.

Why PM me rather than post in the main forum?

Archer
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Dugi

Nothing sinister about not posting in the room the full details, just that I guess I am a little old fashioned and would rather talk to people about what we are doing rather than be impersonal and be just another name on the screen

I don't consider that making direct contact with you and offering my email, telephone number and to discuss personally with you what my company can offer to a freelance cameraman to be in any manner not open, or secretive

I was pleased that I received PMs' from other users and have spoken to some of them today, and they are very happy with what we are doing, 2 have joined us and 1 person who contacted me decided that what we are doing wasn't for them as it did not fit around their work, that was also fine as no company can honestly believe that what they do will suit everyone

It is not in the interest of any company to disclose some information in public where their competition can possibly gain some advantage, some things are best discussed privately

I made what I consider a friendly and serious offer for you to call me at any time, as I will make to anyone who is interested in talking to me

Dugi
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Archer wrote:
Dugi
It is not in the interest of any company to disclose some information in public where their competition can possibly gain some advantage, some things are best discussed privately

So why register and make your first post on this forum?

What rates do you pay Cameramen and Editors?

There's a style of sickly, sweetness in your reply to me Ian that is rather similar to the YELL poster earlier but that may just be "my insecurities".

So, I would like to make you an offer of my services with HD kit for 3 shoots, Cameras, Audio, Lighting and Editing with the proviso that all negotiations regarding Terms & conditions etc. are negotiated in full view of this (DV Doctor) forum that you've just joined.
Deal?

MAGLINK
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I sent Ian a PM and will talk to him Thursday as he had the courtesy to reply to me and offer me a chance to chat with him regarding his ideas.

There are a lot of new opportunities in web video content and as with most developing industries such as dot com etc there will be all sorts of different approaches to defining the business models that suit the industry.

One thing I am very sure of is that to apply the existing broadcast business models will not work as it is a different market that we are trying to sell into, the Yell examples that we have already witnessed don't seem to be very well thought out and I have already shot material for other web based tourism sites.

At the end of the day it is all about adapting and changing our working practices to suit the emerging marketplace but we are already seeing how internet streaming is starting to get better quality than standard definition broadcast with you tube and vimeo offering full 1080p HD.

Who knows where we will be in 2012 but much like ITV and the rest of the broadcasters if we don't address this new and emerging market others who are more web based in operations will move in and exploit it.

Dugi
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"At the end of the day it is all about adapting and changing our working practices to suit the emerging marketplace but we are already seeing how internet streaming is starting to get better quality than standard definition broadcast with you tube and vimeo offering full 1080p HD."

No Gary, I'm sorry, its about upholding standards and people being upfront about their practices.

You're old enough and daft enough to see when people are trying to take advantage. Don't fall for it. It will only drag you down.

Why did Ian post on a public forum and then respond with PM?

I'll be interested to hear how you get on.
Dugi.

MAGLINK
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Dugi I think that it is best for us to discuss rates and Ian's ideas off forum if he choses to do so, I dont see any of the pro broadcast people or wedding videographers conducting their business on public forums so I don't see why Ian should have to do it.

I am sure we are all interested in his ideas but as for rates etc, if he is offering freelance work then it is up to the individual to take it or leave it, I personally have chosen not to do Yell ad's at £15 a go but will be interested to see how Ian see's the business model for his own internet advertising site.

I have my own ideas and my daily rates are published on my web site but web based video content is a new emerging market and as said broadcast rates may not apply for certain situations.

I do everything to broadcast standards in full HD at 1920x1080 but an indie prod cannot afford broadcast rates so if i am happy to do it for less then that is my personal and business choice.

Dugi
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JGNattrass wrote:
broadcast rates may not apply for certain situations.
.

Broadcast Rates I never mentioned.
I only mentioned "its about upholding standards and people being upfront about their practices."

Actually what I didn't ask is - Who supplies the kit?

Chrome
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Hmmm... After looking at the website I must say it sounds very like what we set up with this business... well over 18 months ago.

But even though we had a nice website, lots of potential camera operators, agreements with some of the biggest estate agents, some great demos, a quality streaming service, exclusive agreements with major on-line housing sellers (some of the biggest) and had a great business plan with major PR lined up etc. it turned out not to be feasible for all kinds of reasons... :(

Mostly it was that it was not cost-effective to produce decent high-quality videos for that kind of money (our plan was based on 40 mins to film, 2 hours to edit for a quality house video with copyright free music and graphics overlays etc. within the videomakers postcode area), people simply don't want to pay for cars and bikes (even £25! unless you came to them - not economically viable) and the big one was that estate agents simply will not pay that kind of money when they can sell the houses anyway. Sure there's a few who will go for it, and everyone can see the value, but few are prepared to put the money down on the counter.

Oh and we planned to work on volume, so our 'cut' of the proceeds (in total £150 for a house (including VAT)) was a lot less than the 'producers' (ie: those using camera and editing) who we planned to pay around £90-110 per finished house video (as long as quality was maintained; not paying that for cr@p). So if it took the 'producer' three hours that would be at least £30 an hour! A fair rate in anyone's book I think. :)

Good luck to them... and I genuinely, really hope it works out. But after being involved in that business with a top-grade highly experienced team (in technical aspects, production and business/finance), and expanding lots of time effort and a tub-load of money, we realised it was never going to work.

MAGLINK
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As you say Chrome finding the business model for on-line video is the biggest challenge and if people are expecting to get their media for nothing then it is no wonder that Mr Murdoch and the guardian media group etc can't make money out of it.

I always keep an open mind at the moment but if people can get things for nothing then why would they pay for it? and most estate agents are doing their own video content as is the print media.

Dugi is also right regarding quality but we are ending up with huge contradictions between what is pro shot HD and handy/wobbly cam and at the end of the day the average viewer may not care less about technical quality and just want the cheapest option, after all its what the supermarkets have been doing as a business model for a lot of years.

Maybe in time there will be a booth at Tesco's where you can upload your home shot video advert to their site, they could also do an adult section for the wife swappers???:D

MAGLINK
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I had a good chat with Ian today and he has some very good ideas, I have registered with his company and look forward to assisting to shoot content as and when required.

Pete Allen
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Same here, certainly seems to be a company with a plan.

I drink to steady my nerves. Last night I got so steady I couldn't move. Wedding video essex

pkbristol
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Must've offered you more money then he offered me then.

Paul.

SimonMW
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Quote:
it turned out not to be feasible for all kinds of reasons...

I have been through such ideas in my head so many times, but have always concluded that it would never work for exactly the reasons that you mentioned.

Some types of video simply do not need professional production value. We might think that they do, but the average Joe doesn't. So to come up with something worthwhile we have to ask one simple question. "What makes paying for a video production service essential?"

At the low tier, small companies and such that don't have much to expend, such as hair dressers etc, making the video themselves is totally viable and acceptable. But for medium to large sized businesses they may have an established image, and need things to look highly polished. Something that they cannot do themselves.

I could perhaps see an estate agent that specialised in high value properties, say £400k and above, wanting a video tour to look highly professional, in keeping with the property itself. That could be an avenue. But for most there simply isn't a need for a professional video for used cars, or normal properties.

There appears to be a clammer at the moment to make money out of volume video. But I do not think there is any sort of demand for video in large quantities from professionals. In fact I think that in the near future the only people who will be able to make money are the people with skills, and charge for them. Lighting, composition, use of equipment outside of basic tripods and handheld. Because before long the consumer lines of cameras will be able to produce picture quality on par with what the Sony EX does now.

Look at what that new Sony Ericsson Vivaz mobile phone is capable of! So as the picture quality and the intelligence of the auto controls on consumer cameras increases - and mark my words, we might not like auto focus and exposure now, but future cameras are just going to get better and better at it - people who work in the field professionally are really going to have up their game in terms of composition, lighting, editing and overall production value.

When quality is desired people will pay for it. Further more, even as the quality of cameras increases, if people want and need a truly professional result for portrayal of their company etc then they will pay for it. Many people lack the patience to do it properly themselves. And as we know very well from other industries such as plumbing and HR, people will pay for something that they find tedious to do themselves.

If we, the professionals set the bar high, far higher than any amateur wannabe can reach, then there is hope. But people who still rely on dodgy reveal zooms, don't bother to light their interviews, or inject any oomph into their composition, and generally rush through things aren't going to be on that train.

MAGLINK
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Some good points Simon and I think you are right on a lot of points, it is also interesting to see how you tube has gone from viral low quality to full HD capable. How that will map out with the public will be fascinating as the ability to shoot full HD on your i-phone will open up all sorts of video interaction. How long will it before e-bay add's video content for cars and larger items etc.

After attending several multi media seminars it is also interesting to see how things like guitar hero are going where people listen to their music but then interact with instrument type interfaces even though they may not be able to play a note. My stepson got the DJ hero interface for Xmas and he loved scratching and playing in a game environment.

Will the same happen with video where we can sit at home with our x-factor wii director interface and dictate what shots are selected during the show.

As you say not everything will need pro services to show their video content but if we look at the music industry not everyone now records their music themselves just because they can buy a 16 track recording studio for less than £500.

Talent will always have its place and the quicker the mainstream broadcasters realise this then hopefully they will start making a diversity of programmes that inform, educate and entertain rather than dancing and copycat talent shows.

SimonMW
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Quote:
Talent will always have its place and the quicker the mainstream broadcasters realise this then hopefully they will start making a diversity of programmes that inform, educate and entertain rather than dancing and copycat talent shows.

I agree, but I do not think that this theorem should be limited to broadcasters. Youngsters now are growing up with the ability to make video as a part of normal life. So as time goes on they will use video more and more as a way of communicating, perhaps with their own visual language. We need to be ahead of the curve in that.

At the same time though, because video will become more and more a natural, and easy way of communicating, so the need for video that is ultra professional and stands out from all the noise becomes a requirement. Hence us. And hence why I do not think that the amateurs and low ballers will take over the earth.

I also think the future goes beyond interactive storylines. I find those sorts of ideas to be along the lines of a girlfriend. They want the man to be a man with a plan. Nothing a gal finds worse than a guy who asks her "What do you want to do?" I find it the same with storylines. People want to be taken on a journey and a vision by the director. We have to be flexible. This will evolve in ways we don't expect.

Derek Langford
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The original proposition has certainly provoked a lot of chatter and discussions but does anyone know what has happened to the so called project and a certain Jamie !!

I would be interested to know!!

Derek Video Logic video-logic.org.uk

MAGLINK
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Maybe Jamie could give us a YELL to let us know???:D

magikroom
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Yell
JGNattrass wrote:
Maybe Jamie could give us a YELL to let us know???:D

Derek...The Project and I, are alive and well. I have been concentrating on the internal Videographers and procuring workflow software to allocate Jobs etc. Until the bespoke changes I require are implemented in the Tool, the second phase won't commence (Freelancers). Some major changes have happened internally and obviously cannot discuss them here, but I'm keen to start the second phase asap.

Jamie Morden
Videography Manager
j.morden@yelladworks.com

Wisz
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Richard Wisz Media Services

magikroom
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Video

I just want to point out, this is a completely different project to what I am doing.

Jamie

MAGLINK
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magikroom wrote:
I just want to point out, this is a completely different project to what I am doing.

Jamie

Problem is though that the same company Yell ads are quoted and that damages their image and reputation, we know you work for Yell as I took the time to confirm that but do you not think that people posting ads like that on mandy.com are not good for company image?

magikroom
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JGNattrass wrote:
Problem is though that the same company Yell ads are quoted and that damages their image and reputation, we know you work for Yell as I took the time to confirm that but do you not think that people posting ads like that on mandy.com are not good for company image?

Difficult to say really, as I don't know a lot about it.

Dugi
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magikroom wrote:
I just want to point out, this is a completely different project to what I am doing.Jamie

What are YOU doing,EXACTLY?
How do you feel you're progressing now that you're on your 13th post here some 4 months later?

Paul Llewellyn
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dominicwitherow
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Well, at least the workers have that wonderful, benevolent organisation Unite looking after their interests ...

Barry Hunter
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I havn`t bothered to troll all the way through this post to see if this has already been discussed but here`s a link to the charges yell make to their clients, http://www.yelldirect.com/videoreadytoairrates/home.html

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

MAGLINK
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Update 19/10/10 this Yell Adworks advert is now posted on one of the freelance job pages:

Job Description:

You will undertake Freelance work for Yell.com, shooting custom video for our customers. This footage will be edited in house by us. Due to the nature of our business there will be times of the year when there is lots of work in any particular area, and other times when there is very little and freelance cameramen and videographers who are interested in working with us should be aware of this.

Job Requirements:

Freelance Camera Operators and videographers who work with us need to have a pleasant friendly manner as they will be dealing directly with our customers, discussing the nature of the shoot and the customer’s requirements for their advert.
They need to have their own equipment and be able to shoot in HD preferably at 720p either 50fps or 25fps. They will need to provide lights for most, if not all, shoots.

Pay:

Jobs pay £150+VAT for a single location shoot lasting 2-3 hours or £250 for a shoot over two locations lasting 3-5 hours. We only pay a travel allowance if the shoot is more than 30 miles away from the Camera Operator’s home address.

foxvideo
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Saw that earlier today - you left out the interesting part - no mention of Jamie, it's now Jonathan Jeeves......;)

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

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foxvideo wrote:
Saw that earlier today - you left out the interesting part - no mention of Jamie, it's now Jonathan Jeeves......;)

To be fair I just got an e-mail back from Jonathan asking me to register with Yell Adworks, I then got a confirmation back from Jamie so it all seems OK.

magikroom
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JGNattrass wrote:
To be fair I just got an e-mail back from Jonathan asking me to register with Yell Adworks, I then got a confirmation back from Jamie so it all seems OK.

Yes, I am still very much involved with Video, but more on higher end productions with CG (After FX, Cinema 4D) that some of our national clients are interested in...hope you guys are well :-)

Jamie

Duncan Craig
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I have my first Yell assignment in early December. The chap who called me with the job knew what he was talking about. Seems good so far.

Barry Hunter
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Done 2 jobs for them so far, 1st one has been paid & just waiting for the client tpo come upo with his script for VO for 2nd. IMO easy peasy! Not big money but handy for just 3 hrs max work!

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

Barry Hunter
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Just wondered if anyone else has done any work for them?

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

MAGLINK
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Nope, not a sausage, the noo mediah graduates must be doing it all for their valuable on the job experience?:rolleyes:

Z Cheema
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Nothing here either, in fact had forgotten all about it

Barry Hunter
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Done 4 with 2 more booked, maybe it`s the luck of the draw! Best one so far was a flight training school where I had 2 flights in a 2 seater & 1 in a 4 seater.

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

Duncan Craig
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You lucky bugger Barry, I filmed an alarm company. Got paid very quickly, it was edited by they and they did a reasonable job of it.

colin rowe
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Did one last week for a company in Bude

Colin Rowe

Michael Wade
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Did one in February.

Duncan Craig
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And another one yesterday.

Barry Hunter
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6 so far & one more in a couple of weeks :-)

Barry Hunter videos4all.org