Sony EX1 -Z7!!! - Help...

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Flame1
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Joined: Apr 21 2007

After much thought I finally decided to buy the EX1 at the iov convention, but not without much doubt and many questions still unanswered in my mind.

So here I am sitting with an unopened box! have I made the right decision?

I can change it for the Z7 if I wish...but do I

My biggest complaint with the EX1 has to be the expense of the cards, but now I here of this workaround. Is it really a stable solution? for now. No other real complaints, I think!

The Z7. I stuttered after hearing and reading of many complaints with back focus issues and the lens generally having problems with poor focusing, and CF reader showing corrupt frames etc. Also not sure if you can record HDV to the card. Any feedback from someone who owns this camera would be appreciated. Problems, pluses etc.

The Z7 for me would be the obvious choice if all worked well. I could use same batteries from existing setup. SD downconvert from camera. Added backup with card etc.

So help....I am itching to open the box, but know once I have there is no going back.:confused:

Cheers.

Flame.

tom hardwick
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The Z7's a no-brainer if you're off on safari or going under water, simply because you can change lenses. You planning on doing that Flame? I guess not, so rest easy in the knowledge that the 14x Fujinon ultimately delivers better picture quality to the big ½'' EX1 chips than the Z7 can manage. Mind you, the latter is as good in low kight because the less resolution pixels are as big as those used in the EX1, and at f/1.6 the lens is a bit faster too.

So you know the EX1 doesn't necessarily need the expensive SxS cards. You know it won't shoot SD at all, and you won't ne handing over a MiniDV tape to the client to edit.

I think you've made the right decision if

1) YOU DON'T WANT TO CHANGE LENSES BUT LIKE A 14X OVER A 12X
2) YOU DON'T WANT A SUPER WIDEANGLE
3) YOU WANT AN ON-BOARD STEREO MIC
4) YOU WANT THE BEST PICTURE QUALITY FOR THE $$
5) YOU LOVE THE SWIVELLING HAND-GRIP
6) YOUR COMPUTER CAN HANDLE THE FILES
7) YOU DON'T MIND THAT THE Z7 HAS A BETTER V'FINDER
8) YOU'VE READ HD USER REPORT THAT HEAD2HEADS BOTH CAMERAS
9) IT'LL COME TO ME.

tom.

Medidox
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Flame.

I have a Z7 since July and so far have no problems with either back focus or the compact flash cards. When it comes to focusing, it is more difficult to use autofocus, probably no more so than the EX1 because the recording ability of XDCam HD does show up even slight deficiencies in the depth of field. The Z7 is much closer to a proper lens on a proper camera, and so is the lens on the EX1. So care is necessary with both cameras.

The main difference between the two is archiving material and handing tapes over to third-parties. As well of course as the advantages that you have identified of using your existing batteries etc...

However, you've bought the EX1. Therefore you must have already made your mind up about archiving and third parties. And the card solution that people are coming out with now is looking very tempting.

I for one will definitely be looking more closely at these options in the future.

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007

I have the Z7 and now the S270 and cant fault them. OK they aint perfect if you try and shoot in mega low lighting the auto focus is a problem but once you are aware of it you just avoid doing stupid things in very low light with 18db gain cranked in. Now that I am used to being a camera bod more I do more and more in total manual as I am used to what is going on.

I now shoot HDV all the time to tape and compact flash (yes you can do HDV to flash and it is very good) I also have the capability of shooting Dvcam or even both at the same time if I want.

The lens is fine for most use but I have a second hand fujinon 16x coming for the S270 soon, it was £250 so a a real bargain. I also have the MTF adaptor for fitting all my Nikkor lenses for long range shooting.

Dont get me wrong I have had hic-ups and the sony plug in for FCP still will not work on my systems but I now use clipwrap anyway and have not had any dropped frames or problems shooting with CF for ingest with the safety of tape on the shelf as back-up.

OK I guess the full HD EX will give better pictures but I am more than happy with the HDV format and master everything to pro res 422 anyway. If anything I am having to downgrade the pictures as they are too much when most people are used to seeing SD Dvcam.

I chose the Z7 initially as the SXS cards are just too expensive and I would need to upgrade all my edit systems to handle full HD. I also like tape as a backup format.
There is still a lot of Dvcam shooting around here in the north so it made sense to have that capability too.

What more can I say I love the Z7 and have now added the S270 as a 2nd camera and I am more than happy with the workflow and results that I am getting.

colin rowe
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Hi Flame1.
Go on, open the box, you wont regret it. I am about to buy an EX1, having had the pleasure of playing with one for a day. (thanks to Paul Kellet, pkbistol). The cost of SxS cards was the only thing holding me back. I was speaking to Paul on the phone this morning, he told me he has had no problems whatsoever using Transcend 16gb SDHC cards, £20 to £25 each, 4 of these for £80 = £2000 for 4 16gb SxS. That a definate deciding factor, with the Kensington adaptor coming in at around £20. You can always use the supplied SxS cards for any overcranking. There is a good battery for the EX1 made by Swit, comes with a Dtap connector for £100, check it out here http://www.proav.co.uk/Batteries-Camcorder-Power/DV-Batteries/Sony-Camcorder-Batteries/p18569_sc856.aspx
Have fun with your EX1, it really is an awesome piece of equipment.

Colin Rowe

pkbristol
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Go for it Flame, i can point you in the direction of genuine cards.
I'm using the transcend, as is my colleague with his EX1. 16gb for £25. Not a single fault yet.

Paul.

Mike Walters
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Joined: Oct 29 2002

I looked at both at the show and my inclination would be to go for the EX1 unless you have a need to playback HDV tapes? One nice thing about the Z5 and i'm assuming its the same with the Z7 is the ability to record HDV to tape and SD to the card at the same time. I don't know about the quality of down conversion though or if indeed that would be any use for you. All that aside if you have no need for HDV playback i would go for the EX1 without a second thought.

Flame1
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Joined: Apr 21 2007

All really helpful advice, I am now scratching the box:)

The only other thing I forgot to mention, was its primary use. weddings!

And matching with z1 ( ceremony and speech shots only.)

Cheers,

Flame.

Flame1
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Joined: Apr 21 2007

Having read through all the replies again there are good arguments for both.

I have a headache...:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Has anyone used it at a wedding, handheld, Was it a struggle?

flame.

infocus
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Joined: Jul 18 2003

There is a third option - the EX3. Gives the interchangeable lens option back, better handheld ergonomics, superb v/f (even though the EX1 is pretty good) - but more money.

As others have said, the ability to use SDHC cards in the EX ("KxS") has dramatically altered the balance towards the EX. There are still arguments in favour of the Z7, such as SD and DVCAM compatability, but overall the EX cameras must now be "the" cameras to have under £5,000.

colin rowe
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Havn't used an EX1 for a wedding, I know pkbristol has, he will probably comment on this. I shouldn't think hanheld at a wedding would present any problems, just a matter of getting used to the cams weight distribution. A good Manfrotto monopod should negate any problems. Well worth getting used to the EX1, it will repay you with quite stunning picture quality. Completely agree with infocus, at under £5000 it realy takes some beating.

Colin Rowe

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

Sorry flame,I cant offer any advice. What camera are currently using?

I'm thinking of changing my camera next year sometime and and I need it for weddings too. I rang proactive this morning and they told me that the EX1 and EX3 are the best picture quality cameras (well, for what I want, weddings.) They said they have much better picture quality than the S270. But what will it not cost to run one of these EX cams to cover a wedding and you could have 2/3 weddings just after each other.
Tony.

Tony.
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colin rowe
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Running costs are not realy an issue. Simply shoot in SP 25/Mb/s 1440 x 1080 resolution for HDV compatability, and output your edited footage to tape

Colin Rowe

Tony7
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Hi Colin, This may be a stupid question (and I'm sure it is:) but, how would you output your footage to tape from the EX1 or EX3 after a day shoot.

Tony.

Tony.
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colin rowe
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If you shoot in SP 25/Mb/s 1440 x 1080 resolution, simply output through the firewire port

Colin Rowe

Tony7
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But does that mean as soon as you get home, it could be 10 or 12:00 O'Clock you have to copy to tape. :(

Tony.
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pkbristol
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Why would you want to output your edited footage to tape ?
For archival ?
Pretty soon flash memory cards will be cheap enough for that. In the meantime i back up to a seperate hard-drive, apart from the hard drive which i edit from.

Handheld at weddings ? You get used to the cameras weight, but mostly i use a shoulder support, the one known as "el cheapo", it works great, i have a manfrotto adaptor plate on it so i can switch from support to tripod or steadicam in seconds.

Paul.

Tony7
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Hi Paul, well archival would be an important factor, for me anyway. Once I do a wedding shoot its 6 weeks or more before i would get to it again.
I don't have a lot of faith on HDs, what if it went down or the files were corrupt, just thinking of what might happen, you never know.

Sorry Flame for hijacking your post but I'm thinking along your lines too.
T.

Tony.
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pkbristol
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That's why i copy footage to 2 hard-drives.

Paul.

Tony7
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So Paul, You copy from the card in the EX1/EX3 to Harddrive. How long would it take to copy 3 hrs of footage HD.

Tony.
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infocus
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Tony7 wrote:
Hi Paul, well archival would be an important factor, for me anyway. Once I do a wedding shoot its 6 weeks or more before i would get to it again.

Yes, but what Paul is saying doesn't involve harddrives, rather using SDHC cards more as you would tape nowadays. Let's assume you do go with HDV datarates (25Mbs). At that rate, a £25 16GB SDHC card will store over an hour of video, hence £100 for well over 4 hours - enough for a wedding?

If you film a wedding a week, and edit on a six week cycle, you may need 6x4 cards, at a cost of about £600 - about the same as a single P2 card!! (Which would only store 16 minutes!)

Factor in downloading time saved, no risk of dropouts, saving in tape stock and it looks even more attractive.

SDHC cards still aren't really cheap enough for very long term archiving and storage, but being able to store on card for weeks, rather than have to do on-site downloads, is a huge advance on P2 workflows.

Quote:
Sorry Flame for hijacking your post but I'm thinking along your lines too.
T.

I don't think it is a hijack. The media cost differences between the Z7 and the EX are IMO crucial to choosing between them, for such as wedding work. Until recently, I'd have said the Z7 would have been the better choice overall, whereas now my inclination would be to go with the EX, and that swing is all down to being able to use SDHC with the EX - it's completely altered the economics.

Tony7
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Thanks infocus, so your saying record it to SDHC cards and keep those cards on the shelf until your ready to work on it. I suppose its going to take that bit more to run until you get a few wedding under your belt.

£100 per wedding compared to the price of a DVCam tape.

T.

Tony.
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pkbristol
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Copying from the sdhc card with the card reader, through the pc to an external drive is about 15 mins for 16gb, slightly longer for rewrapping.

A 16gb card, recording on HQ is about 58 mins of footage, in SQ, it 79 mins.

So my workflow is, get home, insert 1st card,copy files (using clip browser, click and drag from top window to bottom) to external hard-drive 1, into a new folder called wedding xyz or whatever, then copy 2nd card to the same folder, then 3rd card, etc.
Once all cards/clips are copied, rewrap all the files in hard drive 1>wedding xyz, from there to hard-drive 2 ( my editing hard-drive) into a folder, wedding xyz, walk away and leave pc while this is going on, go and get a coffee or something.

Now i can drag those from rewrapped mxf files onto vegas and edit.

Paul.

infocus
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Tony7 wrote:
£100 per wedding compared to the price of a DVCam tape.

Not quite as bad as that!

For starters, £25 (and halving year on year) compared to the price of a single DVCam tape - £100 compared to 4, and the SDHC cards are reliably reusable in a way that the tapes aren't.

It depends how long you want to keep the rushes, and just how secure you want them to be. A middle road may be to put the memory cards on the shelf for 6 weeks until ready to edit, then load them to the NLE and make a copy to a hard drive as backup in case the edit system crashes.

At that point, you could format the cards for reuse, or you may want to leave it until the edit is finished.

Tony7
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Good man Paul, what do you mean when you say "slightly longer for rewrapping"
Right. You copy these cards to the HDs, how can you be 100% sure that they copied to HD with out faults. I know it should But.....I just comparing that workflow to DVCam tape.
I know most things you record are important but I'm talking weddings.
Cant record them again.

Tony.
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infocus
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pkbristol wrote:
So my workflow is, get home, insert 1st card,copy files (using clip browser, click and drag from top window to bottom) to external hard-drive 1, into a new folder called wedding xyz or whatever, then copy 2nd card to the same folder, then 3rd card, etc.

Have you tried using 3 card readers simultaneously, copying from three cards at the same time? If the slowest link is the hard drive I doubt it would be any better, but if the slowest link is the SD card speed, it should be quicker and need less manual intervention.

Tony7
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infocus, maybe I'm making things a bit worse than it really is. I would nearly need to see this setup in action.
I'm sure I have 100 more questions but thanks to you all for now.
Tony.

Tony.
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pkbristol
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Tony,,, re checking for faults, just have a quick watch of the files, use vlc player, just to check all is well before deleting cards.Also see below.
Slightly longer for rewrapping, more so when clips span cards, not so much of a problem now that i use 16gb cards.
If you had clip browser and some cards/footage in front of you now you'd see how easy the workflow is.

Infocus,,, i only copy with clip browser as it does a check to make sure all files have copied or rewrapped properly, and only one copy of clip browser can be running at a time.
I probably could copy more than 1 card at the same time using windows but i like the fact that clip browser verifies files.

Paul.

MAGLINK
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My Z7/S270 workflow is shoot HDV to tape and CF at the same time (sometimes I just use the CF cards. They are the Sony recommended ones at 16gb 133X.

I then drop the files into clipwrap and process them to the scratch hard drive which is much faster than tape ingest. Clipwrap re-wraps the m2t files so there is no quality loss. I can also load the m2t files direct into avid if needed.

I open final cut studio 2 and drop the folder containing the files into a new bin and they are there instantly ready to edit.

I always have the tape there just in case a card or file corrupts and more importantly as an archive that goes on the shelf as the cards are re-formatted ready for use the next day. The tape is also there as a back-up if the main hard drive corrupts.

I also have Dvcam or a mix of HDV/Dvcam available as alt an workflow for broadcast or like next tuesday when I am shooting a corporate for northumbrian water that will be edited elsewhere that doesnt have HDV.

My main concern with the EX workflow would be that it is possibly not endorsed by sony and there is no back-up if one of these cheaper cards corrupts, also if a file is lost once copied to hard drive it is gone forever. I have done this many times and trashed the wrong file so it is great comfort to have the rushes tape.

Tony7
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Paul, so there is a way of telling if they copied fault free. Had you ever any er..one that didn't copy properly first time, had to redo it.

Tony.
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pkbristol
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Gary, how much are the sony cf cards ?
The transcend cards i use are 133x.

Thanks.
Paul.

pkbristol
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Tony7 wrote:
Paul, so there is a way of telling if they copied fault free. Had you ever any er..one that didn't copy properly first time, had to redo it.

I've never ever had a fault or corrupted file/clip.

Paul.

Tony7
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Gary, thanks for your input also.
I rang proactive this morning and they told me that the EX1 and EX3 record better pictures than the S270, how true is that? The S270 can record to a 3hr DVcam tape, couldn't be bad to that and ideal for weddings.

Paul good to hear that.

Tony.
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infocus
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Tony7 wrote:
........they told me that the EX1 and EX3 record better pictures than the S270, how true is that?

Pretty indisputable. The sensor chips have twice as many pixels as the S270, and the codec has a higher data rate, whilst based on the same underlying technology (MPEG2).

The question is how important is *absolute* quality to you? There is an argument for knowing when something is good enough, if to get any better causes serious workflow difficulties. Is SD and DVCam tape compatability important to you? If so, those abilities of the S270 may be more important than absolute picture quality.

That's why I previously would have said a S270/Z7 was a better option for such as weddings. What has changed is the ability to use SDHC cards can make an EX workflow far more viable. At that point, why not go for the best picture quality?

Tony7
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They also told me that Z7/S270 was the best option for weddings and as you say infocus,
with the news about the SDHC cards its worth having a look at the EX1/EX3.

Tony.
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MAGLINK
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I also use the transcend 133x 16gb cards the miniumum spec sony give. The S270 can actually record 4.5 hrs on a single tape.

Dont know about the compared quality but I find it is good enough for my needs.

Flame1
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My EX1 box is still well and truly sealed:confused: :confused: :confused:

Cheers,

Flame.

Tony7
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Poor Flame. Wouldn't you love to open the box, but as you say you can still change it.

Gary, it proberly good enough for me too.

T.

Tony.
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MAGLINK
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OK define good enough, it isnt easy but if it helps I will let you know what this camera combo is being used for:

1: I am shooting HDV material for internet TV with a major regional TV consortium in the north east

2: Corporate videos in HDV and DVcam

3: Broadcast news and magazine items in Dvcam

All the above are shot with the Z7/S270 but once edited the master file format is pro res 422 1920x1080 25p. I then deliver on either compressed file for web, DVD or on tape in DVcam,Digibeta,HDcam.

The pictures are great for my use but it is the workflow and compatibility which is more important. If anything the quality is too high as most people up north are used to seeing SD pictures from Dvcam.
I was asked to edit a drama feature recently and had to turn it down as my macbook pro and i-mac set-up would have to be upgraded to esata drives so that I could handle the workflow from an EX-3. Also the drama was being shot on two 8g SXS cards and being transfered to hard disk each day I wasnt happy that there was no belt and braces back up in place.

Now 28 years in broadcast makes me feel a lot happier with safe workflows rather than just sheer quality. OK you can use the cheaper SD cards with the EX cameras and good luck with it but I bet if a few people loose whole weddings or jobs due to card/workflow failure there may be a re-think.

To finish I looked at the EX or P2 route for my set-up but feel happier with the workflow with CF of tape.

Chrome
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Just to throw my 2p into the mix... When talking about storing a single copy on solid state media or after 'dumping' on hard disk ready for editing a wedding later, don't forget about the volatility of these mediums.

I recently had a 2T hard drive go 't*ts up' and lost everything on it (thanks Lacie!), if I had not got the originals on tape and disk and many of the EDL's backed up on DVD then my business would have been SEVERLY impacted. A 'recovery' procedure would have cost well over £3k with only a slim chance of anything back.

I fee that this is something that should be considered when dealing with footage of never to be repeated events. It's ok 'dumping to disk' but other more permenant storage should also perhaps be considered.

Funnily enough I also had a 4Gb memory stick fail a couple of days ago (on a dfferent machine) and lost a few documents on that - luckily I had a backup. :D

Lusky
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Flame1 wrote:
My EX1 box is still well and truly sealed:confused: :confused: :confused:

Cheers,

Flame.

Hi Flame,
The way I'd decided is do you have faith in card only systems and that workflow? If you do the the EX1 seems to be the best camera as the reviews have been excellent and given the size of chip etc then the pictur should be amongst the best out there for weddings

If you'd rather have the security of tape as well then the Z7 is the answer. I'd prefer to hae the security of tape just now and there's no reason other than my own feelings on it in that I simply trust tape as I've used it for so long.

Good luck.

P.S. everyone is talking about x133 CF cards. I've been told by a few people that I trust that while they work there is too much of a risk of loosing information or some of the time code data. To be sure I should use x333 CF cards. Has anyone had problems with x133?

John Paul

MAGLINK
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I havent had any problems with the transcend 16gb 133x cards I use. 133X is the minimum spec that sony give for use with the Z7/S270 so they must have tested it well.
I have 6x transcend 16gb 133X cards and 3x sony 8gb 300X cards.

At the end of the day any recording medium is vulnerable to errors you just have to make sure that all the angles are covered.

I also use re-cycled Dvcam tapes as these are evaluated.

Tony7
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Thanks Gary for your detailed reply, as far as I see its hard to beat tape, for my job, anyway.
Do i trust tape, well I suppose I could say yes, I do.
Do I trust card capture, too early to say, it would need to be used a year or two to prove itself.
Coming in from a wedding and pulling the tape out of the camera and putting it on the shelf, end of story, very handy and SAFE.
One thing I was thinking of is, if a Sony card failed, maybe Sony would stand over it, I don't know. If a SDHC failed, would Sony stand over it.

Tony.

Tony.
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Flame1
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Could I have a poll where you just post EX1 or Z7 in your post!!!:o

You don't have to go into detail, just your own preference for weddings based on your understanding of both cameras.

Would really appreciate.

Thank you:)

p.s. box still closed:(

MAGLINK
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I wonder what sonys take is on using the adaptor and cards with the EX cameras and if this could invalidate the silver service warranty as it may be that they do not recommend use of anything other than SXS cards in the slots.
Some people have already said that you cant close the slot door when using the adaptor and SD cards.
I am sure the EX cameras are great quality and I considered them myself but at the end of the day the hybrid workflow is best for my needs. I did also think about getting a 355 Xdcam to go with the Z7 but it made more sense to have identical systems for both our cameras. At the end of the day cost was also not an issue but i wanted an easy workflow thru to edit too and full HD needs a lot more computer and drive grunt so I accept lower quality pictures for the sake of a robust workflow.

StevenBagley
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Flame1 wrote:
Could I have a poll where you just post EX1 or Z7 in your post!!!:o

EX1! EX1! I bought mine in May and absolutely love it -- best camera I've ever owned.

Quote:
p.s. box still closed:(

Then I suggest you get the box open and play with the camera -- once you see the pictures then you'll realize you've made the right choice. I shot a friend's daughter's wedding in June using mine and two 8GB SxS cards and it worked like a dream. I just had my MacBookPro on hand to dump the SxS cards onto a FW hard drive -- being express card and not connected by USB means the slow part of the transfer was the FW drive, transfers to the internal 7200rpm SATA drive in the MBP where much faster and is the one reason I won't be using the SD card adaptor. I've found it's much faster to copy the data to your hard disk as is and wrap it into QT files later (it also helps with clips that span multiple-SxS cards). You can then use something like rsync to automatically check that the files on HDD are bit-for-bit (well byte-for-byte to be accurate) are identical to those on the SxS card.

But the real killer reason for recommending the EX1 is the pictures and the lens, both speak for themselves and have more in common with cameras costing 10 or 20 times the price...

Steven

Flame1
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Quote:
But the real killer reason for recommending the EX1 is the pictures and the lens, both speak for themselves and have more in common with cameras costing 10 or 20 times the price...

DROOL!!!:)

Quote:
p.s. box still closed :(

It's now open....:eek: :)

Thank you all.......now I have to work out how to use this beast.:confused: :D

Cheers,

Flame.

Tony7
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Good man Flame, :) I thought you might open it.
The best of luck with your new camera, hope you enjoy using it.
Please post back and tell us what you think of it for your weddings. I'm sure your watching this topic
SDHC substitute for SxS cards
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/130757-sdhc-substitute-sxs-cards.html

Tony.

Tony.
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infocus
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StevenBagley wrote:
EX1! EX1! I bought mine in May and absolutely love it -- best camera I've ever owned.

......the real killer reason for recommending the EX1 is the pictures and the lens, both speak for themselves and have more in common with cameras costing 10 or 20 times the price...

I seem to recall you agonising between an EX and a HVX200.... can I assume you're happy with your decision...... ;);)

As far as reliability goes - how reliable is tape? Pretty good, I'd tend to say, but infallible? No. Memory cards? Probably even better, but almost anything can fail. The Z7/S270 do indeed give the possibility of recording to two media at once, but for guaranteed 100% reliability, I'd say that such a thing doesn't exist. In practice, the 0.0...1% chance of failure may come through total equipment failure, nothing to do with media. I also suspect that the biggest single factor may be human error, be it formatting the wrong card, or leaving the tapes on a train.

It's fascinating that this debate is happening at all. Only a couple of weeks ago I'd have said it was an open and shut case as to the Z7/S270 being by far THE best current cameras for wedding usage. (Giving workflow, ergonomics etc just as much priority as picture quality.) It's this ability that's been discovered to use SDHC in EX cameras that has even made the EX cameras realistic candidates, and I could now make a strong case for either.

StevenBagley
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infocus wrote:
I seem to recall you agonising between an EX and a HVX200.... can I assume you're happy with your decision...... ;);)

Yep I'm very happy with it (well my right wrist isn't but the rest of me is... :) ) It was the picture quality that swung it for me, and the fact that SxS fitted nicely into my laptop. It feels like a miniaturized Sony DSR rather than an upgraded VX1000 which I like about it and the pseudo-manual lens option is great. (Pseudo-manual because as I understand it, it is still focus-by-wire but that it is accurately tracked to match your operations a la power steering).

Steven

tom hardwick
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Flame1 wrote:
I have a headache...:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Has anyone used it at a wedding, handheld, Was it a struggle?flame.

Box still unopened?
Background: I use a Z1 all the time at weddings, and the FX1 runs unattended as second cam. Hopefully my skills produce a film of the day which will have the couple blubbing time after time (brides often write to say this, so I guess it must be so).

Thing is I very often shoot in SD. I most certainly master to SD DVD, and the Z1 is often decried for being softly-softly when used in this way. But listen up: content is (nearly) all.

In answer to your question - yes, I've used an EX1 for a wedding, hand-held at times. Yes, it's a bit heavier than the Z1 but so what? We're not talking kilos more, we're big strong lads and hey - the swivelling handgrip is a De-Light, I can tell you. If you can tote around a fully loaded Z1, the EX1 is not in the obese weight zone, don't worry.

Ask yourself this: will your bride pay more for a slightly sharper DVD of her special day? In other words, if you shoot on an EX1 rather than a Z1, will you be able to charge more? The pictures will indeed be better and you and I will see this, but will your story of the day be any smoother, more romantic or bring forth more tears of joy?

I doubt it.

tom.

Mark M
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Flame,

Well done on opening the box!

I did a lot of homework on the EX1 before I used it the first time and I found the shoooting tips they have on the Sony website useful,
http://www.sonybiz.net/biz/view/ShowContent.action?product=PMW-EX1&site=biz_en_EU&category=XDCAMCamcorders&contentId=1193315622052&sectiontype=Product&preserveContext=true

The advice - and picture profile recipies - on the dvinfo.net XDCAM EX forum are absolutely invaluable.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/

Enjoy!

Mark

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fuddam
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tom hardwick wrote:
Hopefully my skills produce a film of the day which will have the couple blubbing time after time (brides often write to say this, so I guess it must be so).

as long as they're blubbing in happiness, right?

;)

infocus
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tom hardwick wrote:
Ask yourself this: will your bride pay more for a slightly sharper DVD of her special day? In other words, if you shoot on an EX1 rather than a Z1, will you be able to charge more? The pictures will indeed be better ........

All very true, but maybe the camera will get used for more than simply weddings? When a client may deem an EX1 technically acceptable, but a Z1 not? Sharpness isn't the most important factor, I'll grant, but the difference is far more than marginal - twice as many photosites as on such as the Z7, and four times as many as on the Panasonic cameras! Equally, a more robust codec codec than HDV, better able to survive what happens in post.

On the other hand, I can think of a lot to be said for the handheld ergonomics of a S270. Pairing with a Z7 could make a lot of sense for weddings for that reason alone.

BirtyBoy1
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Flame, have you considered what the picture quality from the EX1 will be like compared to your FX1 that you use, I assume, as 2nd cam in the ceremony/speeches.

As Tom says, I doubt the average client will appreciate the improved picture quality from the EX1 compared to the Z1/Z7 but they may notice if every time you cut to the FX1 and the picture quality drops.

Can I ask why you didn't consider the Z5, was it the ability to change lenses?

Phil

Mark M
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BirtyBoy1 wrote:
Can I ask why you didn't consider the Z5, was it the ability to change lenses?

Z5 isn't available for purchase yet is it?

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MAGLINK
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Just to add one other point and it is back to the old perception argument.

I turn up to places with a Z7 and OK people are impressed as it is a good looking piece of kit, I turn up with the shoulder mount S270 and I have a pro camera to most people.

Even the ex broadcast news and journo bods I am currently working with see the Z7 as an amateur camera but the S270 is more acceptable as it looks like a proper camera. When I tell them they shoot the came pictures they still cant get over how the Z7 is not pro, one comment was that "it shoots on those little tapes so it isnt pro"

Ok its not just cameras when I worked at AMS Neve we had to make sure that all the digital assignable consoles looked pro but even though they all processed at full 24 bit and worked the same it was difficult to get a 19" rack 32x16x2 console accepted over something 24 feet long as the client felt that was a pro console.

Now if sony do a 1/2" or 2/3" removable lens shoulder mount camera with tape and tapeless shooting for less than £10k then they will have a sure fire winner. Or an EX4 shoulder mount with both SXS HD and CF HDV/Dvcam shooting on board.

tom hardwick
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JGNattrass wrote:
one comment was that "it shoots on those little tapes so it isnt pro"

I know, I know. But just to point out the bitter truth that there's no pro kit, only pro people.

Flame1
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Joined: Apr 21 2007

Thanks again everyone:)

No regrets, box opened. Just reading the manual......

One thing I found is how light it is! I am used to a fully loaded FX1 and this feels paperweight in comparison. Not half as bad as I thought. Love the swivel handle.

A lot more plastic feel than I'd thought. The FX1 feels sturdier!!!

Now I need batteries...more money:rolleyes: ant good places to look for these, and how many do I need?

Can anyone direct me to where I can get the cards that work with adapter etc?

The deciding factor was the worrying percentage of people who had back focus issues with the Z7 and the corrupt frames on CF cards! I am sure this may well have been ironed out now, but I did not want the removable lens anyway.

I did look at the Z5 at the show but yes, it's not out yet. Could have been a contender.

No regrets.

Cheers,:)

Flame.

pkbristol
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Flame.

Re cards, ebay shop, which i can vouch for, called "shop4usb". I've been to the shop personally, it's only about a mile from my house.
I'm using the transcend 16gb.

Battery, my next purchase also, probably the swit version for the EX1, slightly bigger capacity than the BP-U60, a hell of a lot cheaper, about £105 for the swit.
That battery also has a D-Tap output, (which will power my subsequent purchase, a camera light).

Paul.

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

Flame, glad you like it.
As Paul said shop4usb for the cards
He did a few tests along with a few other guys as seen in this link.
SDHC substitute for SxS cards
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/130757-sdhc-substitute-sxs-cards.html

Tony

Tony.
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colin rowe
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Flame1 wrote:
Now I need batteries...more money:rolleyes: ant good places to look for these, and how many do I need?

As in my earlier post, and Pauls post, above, check out battery here. http://www.proav.co.uk/Batteries-Camcorder-Power/DV-Batteries/Sony-Camcorder-Batteries/p18569_sc856.aspx

Also for anyone looking for solid state back up to their tape driven HDV camcorders, the sony CF recorder is now available. http://www.proav.co.uk/VTRs-Discs-Drives/On-Camera-Hard-Disc-Recorders/p19159_sc954.aspx

Colin Rowe

tom hardwick
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More than five hundred and eighty pounds, Colin. Is it my old age that gets me thinking this isn't spectacularly good value for money, or is it just that fact that (like the DSR-11, say) not many will be sold and the price reflects this.

colin rowe
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You may well be right Tom, I had similar thoughts, (probably is an age thing). But compared to an HDD recording unit it seems to be reasonable value.

Colin Rowe

Flame1
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Hi Tony7. Thank you for all your posts. Much appreciated.:)

Quote:
Also for anyone looking for solid state back up to their tape driven HDV camcorders, the sony CF recorder is now available. http://www.proav.co.uk/VTRs-Discs-Dr...159_sc954.aspx

Hi Colin, I could be wrong, but it says compatible only with Z7 & Z5!

Cheers,

Flame.

colin rowe
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Hi Flame.
It should work with any cam via firewire port. I know it works with the Canon XH-A1, at all frame rates.

Colin Rowe

colin rowe
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Hi Flame.
It should work with any cam via firewire port. I know it works with the Canon XH-A1, at all frame rates.
Check out this post at DVXuser http://www.dvxuser.com/V6/showthread.php?t=128010
Pictures here. http://picasaweb.google.ca/ecking/CompactFlashOnCanonXHA1#
A friend of mine in Bucks has a Z7. I tried the CF recorder with My XH-A1, HV10 and HV30. Worked fine with all 3 cams

Colin Rowe

infocus
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tom hardwick wrote:
More than five hundred and eighty pounds, Colin. Is it my old age that gets me thinking this isn't spectacularly good value for money, .........

I believe that's much cheaper than a Firestore, and my feeling is that I'd prefer it to a Firestore due to being solid state, and removable media at that.

Regarding the Z5, if you do want the CF unit (and a lot of Z1 users bought Firestores, didn't they?) you may just as well get the Z7. And get not just an interchangeable lens, but a true manual one at that.

tom hardwick
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infocus wrote:
Regarding the Z5, if you do want the CF unit (and a lot of Z1 users bought Firestores, didn't they?) you may just as well get the Z7. And get not just an interchangeable lens, but a true manual one at that.

Good point about the Firestores and I suspect we'll be seeing a compatible CF unit from them any time soon, donycha think?

The Z5 with CF, Z7 (includes CF) and EX1 are now all of a muchness price-wise, aren't they? But for wide-angle freaks such as me, I can't see them bringing out a 2.3 to 16 mm zoom that will bayonet into the Z7 and EX1's throat.

Which gives the Z5 all the more appeal to me as my wide-angle converter (17 mm full frame equivalent) works beautifully on the 5, but not on the 7 or EX1.

tom.

infocus
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tom hardwick wrote:
Good point about the Firestores and I suspect we'll be seeing a compatible CF unit from them any time soon, donycha think?.

Maybe, but maybe their market is disappearing as more and more cameras become natively tapeless?

Quote:
The Z5 with CF, Z7 (includes CF) and EX1 are now all of a muchness price-wise, aren't they?

In terms of the capital cost of the camera, yes. But until recently you really had to factor in the cost of memory as part of the capital cost of the camera. If you wanted a decent run time before downloading, you'd need at least two 16GB SxS cards, effectively putting the price of the EX up by around £1,000 to get anywhere near two hours.

This is why the use of SDHC cards in the EX is so really significant, why it's totally changed the economics. Their use gives long run times for little more than the basic price of the camera, it becomes much more competitive up against the rest of their range.

At least Sony can take comfort from the fact that they're having increased EX sales, even if some are at the expense of their other models. That's not true for their rivals, probably especially Panasonic, as they are so heavily into solid state.

As far as your wide angle points go, then fair enough. I'm sure you can already get 1/2" wide angle zooms, and a 1/3" suitable for the Z7 is due out. How much they cost is another thing - will they be less than the basic cost of the camera?

Tony7
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Would any of you that have the EX cameras be less confidant record a wedding with the SDHC cards compared to the SXS cards.

Tony.
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infocus
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I haven't got an EX1 (yet) but feel that using SDHC makes such as filming a wedding viable in a way that it just wouldn't be if I had to use SxS. It's KxS and an EX or a different camera. From everything I've heard, I would feel *MORE* confident about using SDHC over SxS *IF* SxS meant downloading as and when during the day. The argument is less technical than the risk of deletion by accident, or the risk of the laptop being stolen!

That said, the SDHC solution seems reliable as long as the adaptors and memory cards are verified to work in advance. The vast majority seem to work well out of the packet, but there have been tales of one or two faulty adaptors. Putting a brand new adaptor and card into the camera and going out the door to shoot a wedding would be asking for trouble, sticking to the tested KxS combination and checking in advance, should be reliable.

Tony7
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Could I ask, whats the KxS combination?

Tony.
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MAGLINK
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I guess KxS is kingston adaptor with an SD card.

I would love to be a fly on the wall explaining this to a bride if one of these corrupts,

.... Well I am sorry your wedding day has been lost as the card corrupted, if it had been OK then the quality would have been great due to the 1/2" chips and the great quality from the EX camera I use":D

Call me old fashioned if you want but I'll stick with my slightly lower quality 1/3" cameras and the sony recommended 133X 16gb compact flash cards with tape back-up.
I am not doing wedding videos and most shots I do could be done again, but I like the belt and braces workflow as it gives me a better nights sleep!

StevenBagley
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JGNattrass wrote:
.... Well I am sorry your wedding day has been lost as the card corrupted, if it had been OK then the quality would have been great due to the 1/2" chips and the great quality from the EX camera I use":D

Although the risk of tape failure is probably as high and I suspect the camera will alert you during recording to problems writing to flash, while you won't know of any tape problems using consumer cameras until you try and replay it. It's why professional cameras and decks have separate record and replay heads so that they can check that the data has been recorded to tape properly -- but even then it fails to warn you sometimes, witness the artefacts visible on one of the interviews in the 'Magnox' documentary on 'Edge of Darkness', the Digibeta camera just had a weird moment during that one interview but was fine for the other interviews shot on the same camera.

Tape's not reliable, but we are used to dealing with it. Flash media's reliability is unknown as yet, but at least the workflow is going to warn you in the field if there are issues. Interestingly, I wonder if dual recording systems are more likely to have problems than single recording systems -- especially if the tape side is largely unused since the operator is less likely to be aware of a head clog, so when the CF or HDD fails the chances of the tape failing are higher than if you were just shooting tape...

Steven

tom hardwick
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That's it see - we all love backup. Whether it be a second camera or a camera feeding card and tape at the same time or an extra audio recorder or spare batteries, backup is good. Ask General Custer.

fuddam
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I can't ask Custer because he died a long time ago. See?

MAGLINK
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You are right Steven but dont get me wrong here I am not anti tapeless, my main shooting format is now compact flash and I rely on it all the time now, it is just nice to know that there is a tape running as well. I am also a firm believer in following manufacturers recommendations as to card speeds and tape types.

As for head clogs well I make sure I use good quality sony tapes (actually re-cycled and evaluated) and clean the heads frequently, I also re-format every flash card before use.

No system is perfect but it is all about damage limitation and keeping up good workflow practices so that errors are reduced to a minimum.

Flame1
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Joined: Apr 21 2007

Just bought 2 extra batteries u60 from prestons at £149.99 each which I think is very good.

Did look into the swit,but they are not that much cheaper, and unless you need the d-tap I would rather stick to Sony. H prestons are not impressed with the swits. They have had complaints that they are not lasting more than an hour!!! and are sending their stock back.

Now must buy some cards.:)

Cheers,

Flame.

Tony7
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What cards have you decided to buy Flame.

Tony.
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tom hardwick
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You think 150 quid for a battery is good Flame? I must be on some different plane, as I see 150 quid buying me a whole Mini DV camcorder with change in my pocket.

Flame1
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Tom, it's relative to the EX1, not a cheap mini dv cam! Find me a better price for a battery in this country ( BPU 60 battery for the EX1!) - and don't say SWIT!!!

Hi Tony,

I have decided to go for the sandisk Ultra II 16gb cards 15MBps.

They are more expensive than the transcend, but I did read somewhere about the transcend having issues on some EX1's, not so with the sandisk:)

Cheers,

Flame.

Tony7
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Ok, Flame.

T.

Tony.
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Chrome
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Joined: May 26 1999

Hmmm interesting... we use V-Lock SWIT for our broadcast cameras. Six batteries (including 2 190 watts) and a reconditioning charger - pretty good so far and a couple of them are over 3 years old. :)

I won't say I would 'swear' by them, but they have performed well and better than the IDX ones we have which seem to be a bit low on power now (same age, but less use).

infocus
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tom hardwick wrote:
That's it see - we all love backup. Whether it be a second camera or a camera feeding card and tape at the same ......., backup is good. Ask General Custer.

Ah, but there's back up and backup. Would General Custer have preferred to see another 1,000 cavalry come charging over the hill........ or a dozen men in a couple of tanks and an apache helicopter!? ;)

Silly analogy? What about aeroplanes? I wasn't very impressed when I first heard of twin engined jets being certified to fly the Atlantic, but an aviation minded friend assures me that they are actually far MORE reliable than four engined planes of a couple of decades ago. The greater reliability of each engine more than makes up for the lower number.

I went on to say "why not therefore have four of the more reliable engines then?" I don't fully understand the reasons but apparently it becomes LESS reliable. Doubles the chances of an incident, (such as fire) which may then lead to the loss of the aircraft, even if the other three engines are still OK themselves. Which I suspect is similar in principle to the points Steven Bagley was making in relation to the Z7.......

As far as batteries go, I believe it's possible to get an adaptor to use older, lower capacity batteries with the EX, though they have to be used two at a time.

Flame1
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Hi Infocus. Yes these batteries are expensive! I guess Sony are a law to themselves:)

Just ordered the kensington adaptor and some Sandisk ultra II 16gb SDHC cards from amazon.

Will then experiment with under and over cranking, although I believe they have been tested to be stable to about 40fps!

Cheers.

Flame.

Tony7
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Keep us upto date Flame, please.

Tony.

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

Flame1
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Received the Kensington 7 in 1 reader today and sandisk 16gb ultra II cards and have been doing extensive testing.Initial impressions, all working excellent with no problems.

Have transferred footage through Sony Clip browser and all is fine.

The only thing I am slightly confused about! is their a way to combine all clips as a whole or do you have to literally import every take into the timeline!!!:confused:

Cheers,

Flame.

Mark M
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Just remind us what program and platform you're editing on?

Adobe Certified Professional Premiere Pro CS6, Premiere Pro CC

Adobe Community Professional

Flame1
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Hi Mark. It's Vista & premiere pro Cs3:)

I can get clips into timeline, no problem with audio. I have Sony clip browser 2 but it just imports all files into many seperate folders for each take!

Is their a way to combine all clips into one from one card?

Cheers,

Flame.

MAGLINK
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infocus wrote:
Ah, but there's back up and backup. Would General Custer have preferred to see another 1,000 cavalry come charging over the hill........ or a dozen men in a couple of tanks and an apache helicopter!? ;)

Silly analogy? What about aeroplanes? I wasn't very impressed when I first heard of twin engined jets being certified to fly the Atlantic, but an aviation minded friend assures me that they are actually far MORE reliable than four engined planes of a couple of decades ago. The greater reliability of each engine more than makes up for the lower number.

I went on to say "why not therefore have four of the more reliable engines then?" I don't fully understand the reasons but apparently it becomes LESS reliable. Doubles the chances of an incident, (such as fire) which may then lead to the loss of the aircraft, even if the other three engines are still OK themselves. Which I suspect is similar in principle to the points Steven Bagley was making in relation to the Z7.......

As far as batteries go, I believe it's possible to get an adaptor to use older, lower capacity batteries with the EX, though they have to be used two at a time.

Yes but would you fly on a plane with two engines that have been fitted by the pilot via some mounts that are made by another company and have not been tested by the manufacturer?

Mark M
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Me, after having copied the contents of the card to my HDD I just import the whole BPAV folder into Premiere. All the mp4 clips show up in the bin. I then drag the clips I want into the timeline. If I want 'em all I select 'em all....

There are, perhaps, more sophisticated ways of doing it, but I don't know 'em!

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pkbristol
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Flame.
Using premiere pro cs3, no need to rewrap using clip browser.
Just copy or drag the files using clip browser, from the card to a location on your hard-drive.

Paul.

infocus
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JGNattrass wrote:
Yes but would you fly on a plane with two engines that have been fitted by the pilot via some mounts that are made by another company and have not been tested by the manufacturer?

Funny you should say that, because I have flown on a plane (re)built by the pilot, and that had only one engine! (It wasn't across the Atlantic, though.) :)

What I was trying to say is that there is no such thing as absolute reliability, be it planes, cameras or anything else, and when systems get complex the obvious may turn out not to be true. The obvious analogy here is the plane that landed short at Heathrow some months ago. It had two engines, everything certified in accordance with the manufacturer, but the critical failure affected all the systems together.

As far as the KxS system goes, I personally would not simply buy some cards, unwrap them and go and do a critical job trusting to what others had told me. I WOULD use them for such a job if I'd received them well in advance, tested them on more than one occasion, checked up to what speed they would overcrank to, and had had a period of error free use.

There's a conceivable (but small) chance of a failure, but so there is with a double recording system such as the Z7 uses - just like the Heathrow plane with both it's engines losing power at the same time.

Flame1
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Joined: Apr 21 2007

Not sure if I have a problem with my EX1, but I find that when I use servo manual focus I am able to focus on to a subject at around 2 feet away. When I switch to Full maual focus I cannot focus at the same distance....is this a fault?

It appears I am not able to get as close to the subject in full manual as servo manual.
This is with and without macro mode on/off.

Any advice from other EX1 owners appreciated.

Cheers.:)

Flame

paultv
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The deal is simple: use the recommended SDHC cards for normal shooting and use your SxS cards for overcranking.

Forget about pushing the SDHC cards, there's no advantage in it, just use them for everyday shoots at any normal SP or HQ setting.

Paul

infocus
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paultv wrote:
........use the recommended SDHC cards for normal shooting and use your SxS cards for overcranking.

Forget about pushing the SDHC cards, there's no advantage in it,.......

Ah, sorry - I've just reread what I posted. When I suggested "checked up to what speed they would overcrank to" I wasn't thinking of USING them in such a mode, just that it offered a quick and dirty way of checking they were well up to spec. So if you bought four cards, three overcranked without error up to 40fps, but one only managed 30fps, I'd not feel happy about trusting the latter in normal operation - too marginal.

Apologies for the confusion.

Tony7
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Flame1 wrote:
Not sure if I have a problem with my EX1, but I find that when I use servo manual focus I am able to focus on to a subject at around 2 feet away. When I switch to Full maual focus I cannot focus at the same distance....is this a fault?

It appears I am not able to get as close to the subject in full manual as servo manual.
This is with and without macro mode on/off.

Any advice from other EX1 owners appreciated.

Cheers.:)

Flame

Dont know if this is any help Flame but does the firmware update help your problem.
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/sony-xdcam-ex-cinealta/129364-ex1-firmware-updates.html

Tony

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CamerentJoe
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Z7e

I personally prefer the Sony Z7E.

It has the best of both worlds with the tape and flash card recording.

The flash cards record more footage than the P2 cards provided with the EX1.

16GB- 72 MINS APPROX
8GB - 36 MINS APPROX
4GB - 18 MINS APPROX
2GB - 9 MINS APPROX

Where as the P2 cards record 1gb per minute.

Hope this helps.

If you would like to rent a Sony Z7E please visit our website camerent.co.uk and we will be able to help you.:o

Mark M
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Joe, surely some mistake here: the EX1 records onto SxS cards (or SD cards using the KxS processs) it's the Panasonic cameras that record onto P2 cards. Now, were you talking about P2 or SxS?

As far as I understand it in with the SxS on EX1 you get 50 mins on a 16GB card at full HD (1920 x 1080) and 70 mins (the same as Z7) at HDV (1440 x 1080). Meaning that with an EX1, which has 2 card slots, you could record HDV continuously for 140 minutes using 2 x 16GB cards.

Are there 32GB CF, SD or SxS cards available yet?

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CamerentJoe
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Sorry wrong card you are correct :-)

Not at the moment there is a possibility next month some time but nothing has been confirmed yet.

colin rowe
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32 GB SDHC cards are available. Sandisk Ulltra 2, around £76, best price I have come across Here. http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/17027.htm 32GB SxS from here @ £938. http://www.proav.co.uk/Blank-Media-Tapes/XDCAM-Optical-Disc-SxS-Cards/p18559_sc634.aspx Now, which should I buy????????????????????????????????????

Colin Rowe

infocus
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colin rowe wrote:
Now, which should I buy?

Well, if you want to shoot overcranked for a number of hours, obviously the SxS! ;)

Tony7
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Whats this overcranked thing? :)

Tony

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colin rowe
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Hi Infocus.
At that sort of price difference, overcranking is a small price to pay.

Colin Rowe

colin rowe
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under/overcranking= the ability to record super smooth slo/fast motion, by altering the frame rate.

Colin Rowe

Tony7
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Oh right Colin, I'm sure then, its a lot smoother but, is it that important to do it incamera. If I was using the cheaper cards not being able to overcrank wouldn't bother me.

Tony

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colin rowe
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Quite right. The enormous savings made by using KxS instead of SxS make it a pretty simple choice

Colin Rowe

Tony7
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After reading the post about the KxS method I wonder..can it be trusted, I hope it proves it can, time will tell.

Tony.
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infocus
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colin rowe wrote:
At that sort of price difference, overcranking is a small price to pay.

Don't worry! I fully agree. :)

Tony - one thing about the overcranking is that it's only possible if your output frame rate is going to be 24/25fps - film look.

The EX normally records at a data rate of 35Mbs, overcrank to (say) 50 fps and it will double the data rate ON RECORD so that it's still 35Mbs on replay, with 2x slow motion. It's the need to record much higher than 35Mbs data rates on overcrank record that the SDHC cards can't handle.

It is more fluid than slowing normal speed footage down later, but the general feeling seems to be to have one or two SxS cards specifically for things like that, with SDHC cards for the other (98%) of work.

Tony7
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Thanks for the explanation Colin, I think I understand now.

Tony

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Tony7
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Does the EX1 or EX3 have the D-tap socket for an onboard light.?

Tony

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colin rowe
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Colin Rowe

Tony7
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Thanks Colin.

Tony.
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pkbristol
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I,ve just bought that battery and the swit s-2000 light to go with it.
It's an excellent combination.

Paul.

Flame1
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Now that I have got acquainted with the EX1 I have to say I absolutely love it, so thank you everyone who helped me make up my mind here.

There are too many things to mention apart from the picture quality, but the iris dial on the lens is great.

Far less forgiving than the FX1 in auto so I would no doubt be using this full manual, but it's worth it for the results. I think this camera wants to be driven manual and for any one thinking of buying this, bear that in mind.

It will punish you if you decide to rely on its auto settings.

Off to practice some more:)

Thx again.

Cheers.

Flame.

MAGLINK
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Joined: Mar 8 2007
Tony7 wrote:
Whats this overcranked thing? :)

Tony

I think its where you put a hand crank in the side of the camera and it makes the film go through the gate quicker so you can make it look SLLLLLOOOOWWWEERR:D

pkbristol
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JGNattrass wrote:
I think its where you put a hand crank in the side of the camera and it makes the film go through the gate quicker so you can make it look SLLLLLOOOOWWWEERR:D

Exactly, like in the "olden days".

Lets say the operator used to turn the handle at one revolution per second, and play back at one revolution pers second, this would be normal speed recording and normal speed playback.
Now lets say that during recording, the handle was turned at 2 times per second, then played back at one turn bper second, the clip that was just recorded will now play back at half the speed.
So there you go, "overcranking explained",, under cranking is the same but handle turned a lot slower during recording, which results in fast motion when played back.

Paul.

Tony7
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Thanks for that explanation guys.

Tony

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DAVE M
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pkbristol wrote:
Exactly, like in the "olden days".

the clip that was just recorded will now play back at half the speed.

Paul.

and the main point is that this is a far better way of creating fast/slow playback than messing about with the NLE as the data is actually recorded, rather thasn extapolated