Edius 6: sharpen or detail enhance?

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tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

My Edius 6 timeline does a quick n dirty conversion from HD to SD by simply changing the project settings. Fine for some jobs, but the SD can look a bit soft (probably because it's so easy to flick between the two settings).

So I've been looking at the NewBlue filters that came as part of the package and there's a simple 'sharpness' filter as well as a 'detail enhancer', the latter with 'detail' as well as strength.

Anyone use either of these filters on their SD projects? Any thoughts as to the settings to apply or is it a suck it and see exercise?

tom.

Mick Mearman
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Joined: Sep 12 2004

I've never tried conversion direct in Edius because I have been very pleased with Anton's Virtual Dub method ie a Canopus HQ file and resized in Virtual Dub then back to a SD project and there I do add an 8% sharpness filter which it does need.
http://www.videoproductions.com.au/html/virtualdub-hd-sd.html

Mick

3.00 gigahertz Intel Pentium III, 3.5GB RAM, ATI Radeon HD 4350, Avid Liquid, Edius 6.03, Sony EX1R & EX1, Panasonic SD700

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Yes, I too have used the virtual dub + 8% sharpness but it's a bit long-winded for big projects I find.

Mick Mearman
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Joined: Sep 12 2004

Yes Tom I agree it takes longer, but I think worth it at the moment, my test for a good conversion is if it looks as good at normal SD viewing distance as close up in HD, what I mean is if I've been editing in HD using my HD monitor when it gets to SD I get up and stand about 10 feet away, if it looks good then, that's ok.
I'm told that it's the Lanczos filter in VD that's the important bit, so I suppose when (if) it gets to be part of Edius it will save us all a lot of time.
Mick

3.00 gigahertz Intel Pentium III, 3.5GB RAM, ATI Radeon HD 4350, Avid Liquid, Edius 6.03, Sony EX1R & EX1, Panasonic SD700

Tony7
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Joined: Mar 21 2001

I don't think there is any quick way of getting that quality Mick is talking about.

I have used the VD method too but now use this method, also from Anton.
http://www.videoproductions.com.au/html/t5-hd-sd.html

Tony.
Asrock Z68 Extreme7 --i7-2700K --Edius Pro7--HDStorm+ --16GB Kingston HyperX--GTX 560Ti--AX850 PSU--MxM PCI-e Reader--Win8.1 Pro 64bit

Alan Roberts
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Joined: May 3 1999

Cortrect, Mick, it's the sensible filter in the Lanczos algorithm that makes the difference.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Does that mean GV would have to pay to include the Lanczos filter, in the same was as NLE manufacturers pay Dr Ray Dolby?

Alan Roberts
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Joined: May 3 1999

I think that's right. Lanczos is included in the latest version of Carbon Coder (which was the source for Procoder, as a cut-down version) which is Expensive and Good.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

paultv
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Joined: May 16 2002

I ran a down convert test on Carbon 3 which sells for £4000 from HD to SD - horrible, worse than VD by miles, which is free. Even Edius makes a better job of it.

Also I think my Procoder 3 is almost as well appointed for £200.

Paul :-)

Alan Roberts
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Joined: May 3 1999

You must have had some odd settings in Carbon, because Procoder is a reduced-feature version of it. Carbon does almost all the non-real-time conversion for BBC HD/SD.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

paultv
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Joined: May 16 2002

Hey Alan,

Maybe the trial is not the full blown thing, anyway, I'm always interested in finding the highest quality conversion and re size soft, I'll spend a little more time on it before it expires or explodes.

Paul :-)

Alan Roberts
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Joined: May 3 1999

As far as I'm aware, the trial version of Carbon is unfettered, but expires after the (short) trial period. Richard Payne would know the details, I'll alert him to this thread.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Know what? I have Procoder3 on this Edius 6 pc but have never used it for down-converting as I seem to remember you saying that it was past its best-by date, Alan. Is this correct? Does the free Lanczos Virtual Dub do an equal or better job?

tom.

paultv
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Joined: May 16 2002

I stopped using PC 3 as Virtual Dub produces very very high quality results - I even use it for converting RED files on occasion - also TMPGenc 5 does a similarly excellent job, no jaggies or moire from HD to SD.

Paul :-)

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

Virtual Dub (free) and TMPGenc 5 (£65?) are miles apart in price, so is the latter 65x better?

Richard Payne
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Joined: Sep 15 2000
paultv wrote:
I ran a down convert test on Carbon 3 which sells for £4000 from HD to SD - horrible, worse than VD by miles, which is free. Even Edius makes a better job of it.

Also I think my Procoder 3 is almost as well appointed for £200.

Paul :-)

Hi Paul. Carbon Coder's Downconvert is superior, did you use an old trial version?
Version 3.19 is excellent for Downconvert. You set the Downconvert quality in the advanced settings - choose Lanczos.

paultv
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Joined: May 16 2002

Hello Richard,

How are you?

I'll check this out when I have a free minute or two, got hassles with a broken Raid right now....

Paul :-)

Alan Roberts
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Joined: May 3 1999

Procoder is a dead product, no longer for sale, not supported. But it's still crackingly good at what it does. Carbon (latest version) has Lanczos scaling and beats everything else, but is expensive.

Get my test cards document, and cards for 625, 525, 720 and 1080. Thanks to Gavin Gration for hosting them.
Camera settings documents are held by Daniel Browning and at the EBU
My book, 'Circles of Confusion' is available here.
Also EBU Tech.3335 tells how to test cameras, and R.118 tells how to use the results.

Ben Longden
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Joined: Jun 10 2009

NEAT Video offer noise reduction as well....