Church Wedding Filming Society participants

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Pete Allen
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Joined: Oct 25 2006

Continuing from THIS thread, could anyone who wishes to be added to the list of participants , please pm me your details as soon as possible.

Thanks

I drink to steady my nerves. Last night I got so steady I couldn't move. Wedding video essex

tom hardwick
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Joined: Apr 8 1999

I'll be joining up Pete.

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

And here's the final agreement with :)

*CHURCH WEDDING FILMING SOCIETY*
FILMING IN CHURCH - OUR VOLUNTARY CODE OF CONDUCT

In light of the recent Royal Wedding and the magnificent images from the wedding ceremony, we as professional video producers would like to be able to continue our tradition of offering similar discreet, but emotive images to all our wedding clients who choose to marry in church.

-----------------------------------------------
We pledge to carry out our work with the utmost respect for the environment we are working in. We offer full cooperation with clergy regarding the locations of equipment placed within a church. We understand that in some cases churches have limited space for a tripod and camera at the front, but if possible, this offers not only the best recording of the couple making their vows before God, but also allows capture of all their joy and happiness that make these scenes so memorable for the bride, groom and their families.

---------------------------------------------
The following is a voluntary code of conduct, which we hope will demonstrate that we take our services to couples being married in the christian church very seriously. Equally we hope it will show that we treat the Church and its ministers with the utmost respect and appreciate the sanctity of the wedding service is paramount.

We value the solemnity of a christian church wedding and believe a professionally filmed wedding DVD can act as a regular reminder to married couples of their promised wedding vows and help to reinforce and strengthen their Christian heritage and beliefs. We feel our services play a small but important part in helping to build the christian foundations of their married life together.

Some operators will attend the rehearsal, but others who travel long distances will arrive in good time before the ceremony for a few minutes discussion with either the Verger or Clergy regarding suitable camera positions.
-------------------------------------------
We undertake that all operators adhering to this voluntary code of conduct will have adequate public liability insurance and also hold all licences required for the filming of organ music and hymns, a copy of which will be made available on request. Many operators use radio microphones for recording. Where they are used, we request time to carry out a brief check to ensure no interference with the internal church systems
-------------------------------------------------
We all undertake to remain in the same position throughout the wedding ceremony to ensure the dignity and solemnity of the service.
----------------------------------------------
All operators are aware of 'Crown Copyright' during the signing of the registers and where 'live signing' is allowed you can be assured that no filming of the register itself will take place.
------------------------------------------------
We will ensure appropriate and respectful standards of dress are maintained at all times whilst in or around the Church and it's grounds
-----------------------------------------------
We would like all church officials to keep a diary of any misbehavour or lack of respect during wedding services and to inform xxxx via email xxxxx or telephone xxx of any operators who fail to keep to the terms set by the clergy in charge.
Any associated producers who fail to abide by the above terms will be warned of their behaviour once only. Any subsequent failures will then have their details removed from our list of recommended operators.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999

Just a couple of small typos?

branny wrote:
And here's the final agreement with :)

*CHURCH WEDDING FILMING SOCIETY*
FILMING IN CHURCH - OUR VOLUNTARY CODE OF CONDUCT

In light of the recent Royal Wedding and the magnificent images from the wedding ceremony, we as professional video producers would like to be able to continue our tradition of offering similar discreet, but emotive images to all our wedding clients who choose to marry in Church.

-----------------------------------------------
We pledge to carry out our work with the utmost respect for the environment we are working in. We offer full cooperation with clergy regarding the locations of equipment placed within a church. We understand that in some cases churches have limited space for a tripod and camera at the front, but if possible, this offers not only the best recording of the couple making their vows before God, but also allows capture of all their joy and happiness that make these scenes so memorable for the bride, groom and their families.

---------------------------------------------
The following is a voluntary code of conduct, which we hope will demonstrate that we take our services to couples being married in the Christian church very seriously. Equally we hope it will show that we treat the church and it's ministers with the utmost respect and appreciate the sanctity of the wedding service is paramount.

We value the solemnity of a Christian church wedding and believe a professionally filmed wedding DVD can act as a regular reminder to married couples of their promised wedding vows and help to reinforce and strengthen their Christian heritage and beliefs. We feel our services play a small but important part in helping to build the christian foundations of their married life together.

Some operators will attend the rehearsal, but others who travel long distances will arrive in good time before the ceremony for a few minutes discussion with either the Verger or Clergy regarding suitable camera positions.
-------------------------------------------
We undertake that all operators adhering to this voluntary code of conduct will have adequate public liability insurance and also hold all licences required for the filming of organ music and hymns, a copy of which will be made available on request. Many operators use radio microphones for recording. Where they are used, we request time to carry out a brief check to ensure no interference with the internal Church systems
-------------------------------------------------
We all undertake to remain in the same position throughout the wedding ceremony to ensure the dignity and solemnity of the service.
----------------------------------------------
All operators are aware of 'crown copyright' during the signing of the registers and where 'live signing' is allowed you can be assured that no filming of the register itself will take place.
------------------------------------------------
We will ensure appropriate and respectful standards of dress are maintained at all times whilst in or around the church and it's grounds
-----------------------------------------------
We would like all Church officials to keep a diary of any misbehavour or lack of respect during wedding services and to inform xxxx via email xxxxx or telephone xxx of any operators who fail to keep to the terms set by the clergy in charge.
Any associated producers who fail to abide by the above terms will be warned of their behaviour once only. Any subsequent failures will then have their details removed from our list of recommended operators.

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Well spotted Arthur, I'm glad someone's paying attention to the fine detail :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Pete Allen
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Joined: Oct 25 2006
tom hardwick wrote:
I'll be joining up Pete.

Good man Tom.

I drink to steady my nerves. Last night I got so steady I couldn't move. Wedding video essex

Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999
branny wrote:
Well spotted Arthur, I'm glad someone's paying attention to the fine detail :)

Wuz a printer in a previous life....we used to get 10 bob for every mistake spotted. :)

Mark M
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Joined: Nov 17 1999

Earn yourself another ten bob Arthur and spot the misuse of the apostrophe :)

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Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999

Didn't say I earned many crisp new ten bob notes did I? (and don't forget inflation) :D Only examples I can see look right to me. (It's?) Shouldn't christian have a capital
'C'? build the christian foundations

Mark M
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Joined: Nov 17 1999

I'd agree with you on the capital C for Christian. And yes, "it's" is not right.
http://www.eng-lang.co.uk/apostrophe_rules.htm

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BirtyBoy1
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Joined: Feb 5 2001

Perhaps the first line could be changed so that as time passes the message would still be relevant, how about:

"As professional video producers, we pledge to continue our tradition of offering discreet, but emotive images to all our wedding clients who choose to marry in Church. The magnificent images recorded of Prince William and Katherine Middleton are a fine example of history in the making. Our clients have also chosen to have their wedding recorded for the very same reason."

The point I'm making is the code of conduct will not be relevant next year.

Phil

Phil

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Good points by everyone. The initial impact can be made with the current phrasing though as this year passes it would make sense to modify it to Phil's (note the apostrophe :)) version.
Now altered + I added capital 'C's to all the ones missing from Churches too while I was there :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Chrome
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Joined: May 26 1999

Branny, sorry for any mistakes due to me, I normally spend a long time checking these things (I did spend a long time writing copy and should have spotted any of my own mistakes) :(

However, church or churches does not need a capital 'C', unless you are referring to it thus, 'The Church'; there's a big difference between "it was beside a church." and "it was the property of The Church."

So "Getting married in a church" or "choose to marry in church" or "Having a church ceremony" is a small 'c', but if it was "Getting married in The Church" or "choosing to marry in The Catholic Church" would always be a capital.

The same goes for "verger or clergy", AND I'm pretty sure 'christian' too, unless you are referring to specific instances or individuals they do not need capitals. So "He was a christian." would be correct. When using 'Christ' or 'Christmas' etc. a capital would be correct.

'Crown Copyright' does however need capitals.

And I'm afraid I don't agree with birty boy regarding the first line... I think if it starts off with "As professional video producers..." IMHO it would appear to be arrogant and demanding, as it reads now is less forthright... if time is a consideration simply change it to "In light of the most recent Royal Wedding..." after all how much time will this be relevant for, surely it can be updated. :D

Once again, hope this helps.

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Cheers chrome - So, it was the couple of lines of yours that set the spell/punc/grammar hunt going. Not my hottest topic where capitals are merited either, but what you say makes sense.
Good we have a mix of eagle eyes to pick the faults on this as we don't want to appear as text numpties. :) I'll modify it again now.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999

Good explanation here: http://www.elearnenglishlanguage.com/difficulties/its.html

Knew I shouldn't have left school at 15. :eek:

ChrisGill
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Perhaps you might want to take out the word "DVD" as this may be obsolete in a short while if everone moves onto Bluray and online delivery, just a thought.
Chris.

Freelance Cameraman

www.tvv.co.uk/crewhire.htm

Pete Allen
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Joined: Oct 25 2006

Just a little nudge for those who intend submitting their details.

We need these as soon as possible as thing are moving at a pace.

Thanks to all those who have already sent their details.

I drink to steady my nerves. Last night I got so steady I couldn't move. Wedding video essex

Chrome
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Joined: May 26 1999
branny wrote:
it was the couple of lines of yours that set the spell/punc/grammar hunt going

Not really branny, the 'our' that has now been included, is irrelevant in the second paragraph, however 'the' was valid (often less is more when it comes to writing copy), but I'll certainly hold my hand up to the 'it's' mistake... how that slipped in I'll never know. I'm usually really hot and down on that one myself... but "to err is human, to forgive divine" as they say!

It's looking really good now that it's complete; its grammar seems fine now. I hope it all works well for those using it and signing up. :D

Pete Allen
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Joined: Oct 25 2006

Website will be going live very soon guys, if you want to be included from the outset, get your details to me via pm as soon as possible.

We need your name, your company name, website and, email address, contact numbers and, logo if you have one.

I drink to steady my nerves. Last night I got so steady I couldn't move. Wedding video essex

caryjoy
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Joined: May 10 2005

Count Joy & I in please:D

Pete Allen
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caryjoy wrote:
Count Joy & I in please:D

No problem Cary, if you pm me your details, we'll get you added.

I drink to steady my nerves. Last night I got so steady I couldn't move. Wedding video essex

FX Films
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Joined: May 9 2007

soz for the delay - was on hol for a week

feel free to add me (contact number on my site)

cheers

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Cheers Richard! Tis good when we can all pull in the same direction :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

De Rienzo Films
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Me to!:)

Not been keeping up to date here of late.

Do I need to give out any information other than what's on my website?

Cheers.

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Hey up Jon! Nope - I'll find all the details and pin em on the wall. Welcome aboard!

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Barry Hunter
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Joined: Nov 30 2001

Branny, kindly add us to the list please.

videos4all.org

Barry Hunter videos4all.org

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Hi Barry - now added. Thanks for joining!

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Simondo
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Joined: Nov 7 2007

Hello there, please add us as well

Pete Allen
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amberfilm wrote:
Hello there, please add us as well

If you PM your details, you will be added at the next update, Cheers.

I drink to steady my nerves. Last night I got so steady I couldn't move. Wedding video essex

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

For anyone who needs the logo to add a link from their own website. Here it is.:)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

nigelbb
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Joined: Jun 15 2010
branny wrote:
All operators are aware of 'Crown Copyright' during the signing of the registers and where 'live signing' is allowed you can be assured that no filming of the register itself will take place.

The potential issue with photographing or videoing the register is just an obstruction raised by Jobsworths sometimes under the guise of 'Crown Copyright', sometimes as allegedly contravening the Data Protection Act & sometimes under the pretence that the bride & groom might make a mess of the register by waving the fountain pen about while looking at the camera. In reality as a publicly available document there is no such prohibition & as 'unpublished public records' the Marriage Register is among the categories of specific Crown copyright material that can be reproduced without a formal licence. It would be better to omit the paragraph entirely unless someone can come up with a better form of words to placate the odd Jobsworth vicars (although it's normally registrars &/or their clerks who object) without acknowledging that they have any right to ban photos or videos of the actual signing of the register.

PP
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Joined: Jan 30 2004

Re signing of the register, I had a "discussion" with a Registrar at a wedding 3 weeks ago. She said I couldn't film during the signing due to instructions "from above". After I told her that I don't film the register I just hold the camera at waist height, so you couldn't see any words, she allowed it but would get her boss to contact me later. I'm still waiting.

I was shown an official memo by another registrar several years ago, saying that there was no legal reason why the signing couldn't be filmed.

Peter

Peter

Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999

I don't doubt you're right, but this is about NOT getting into conflict with the clergy etc. I generally film away, unless asked not to...then I just say I'm focusing on the hands, not the signature.

Z Cheema
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Joined: Nov 17 2003

I think the wording for the register should be adjusted
"that we will respect the wishes of the clergy regarding the filming of the signing"
, as opposed to blanket no filming.

BirtyBoy1
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Z Cheema wrote:
I think the wording for the register should be adjusted
"that we will respect the wishes of the clergy regarding the filming of the signing"
, as opposed to blanket no filming.

Agreed

Phil

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001
Z Cheema wrote:
I think the wording for the register should be adjusted
"that we will respect the wishes of the clergy regarding the filming of the signing"
, as opposed to blanket no filming.

You're added Z! I agree the current wording isn't perfect too :) But . . . there's no mention of a blanket 'no filming'?
Nearly all clergy allow filming of the fake register signing and the web statement is just to reassure them whenever a 'live' signing is allowed. :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Z Cheema
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I read it as not filming the live signing, which sometimes they do not mind and if filmed in a certain way can be achieved without booking at the book

Thanks, can you call me at some time idea brewing, Branny

Thanks

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Hmmm - Try reading it from the clergy's point of view not ours and it should appear reassuring.
"All operators are aware of 'Crown Copyright' during the signing of the registers and where 'live signing' is allowed you can be assured that no filming of the register itself will take place."

Fire your piccies over sometime Z!

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Pete Allen
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Joined: Oct 25 2006

We now also have an endorsement from the I.O.V. on the code of conduct.

Come on guys, get signed up.

I drink to steady my nerves. Last night I got so steady I couldn't move. Wedding video essex

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Just a reminder to fellow members. If you can, please add the logo and link to C.W.F.S. from your own website. I've already updated mine http://www.cravenimagestudios.co.uk/weddings.htm
I've started emailing past and future Church's where we are due to film to let them know of our code of conduct too.
We now have a great opportunity to set the yardstick for filming standards in Church and to let all clergy know there are alternatives to what some have had to contend with.
Keep up the good work guys!

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

FX Films
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Well done for all this Branny - it'd be amazing if it makes even the slightest of difference/awareness. It'll be a slow, uphill struggle but it's commendable you had the balls to get this started!

glyn.jones
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I'l second that, I will be taking a printed copy to Fridays rehearsal. The couple whose wedding started all this were most interested in what came out of their misfortune.

Glyn

Glyn Jones 2 Canon XH-A1s Canon XA10 Canon HV30 DVC build EDIUS NX HD PC running Edius 6.06 magicalmomentsvideos.co.uk

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Cheers guys! It will be slow and it is all uphill from now on. It's only been a couple of weeks but thanks to everyone's support it's moving. But it's now down to us all to link and push and network the idea wherever we can.
What we had before this was a splintered and aimless individual battle to win over the clergy. We now have unity that can make a real difference in our approach to filming in churches and we will, if we maintain the code of conduct, gain the confidence of the Uk's clergy of all denominations.
Everyone voiced their opinions on Glyn Jones's clients experience and there was nothing at all that would, or could sway this particular clergy's opinion. Hopefully in a year or so of polite lobbying we can all benefit from our society.
Despite the multitude of differences in styles and techniques in all our work we finally have a unique spearpoint we can all push behind.
I applaud you all!

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999

Yep, big thanks to you (and Pete) for taking on the work. If it makes even a small positive difference, it's worth it.

nigelbb
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We would like to sign up but please could we have this register signing paragraph sorted first as I don't like giving an undertaking not to film the register when there is no need. I suggest a better wording is
"All operators are aware that there may be sensitivities regarding filming of the signing of the register and will abide by the prevailing local rules."

Pete Allen
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Joined: Oct 25 2006
nigelbb wrote:
We would like to sign up but please could we have this register signing paragraph sorted first as I don't like giving an undertaking not to film the register when there is no need. I suggest a better wording is
"All operators are aware that there may be sensitivities regarding filming of the signing of the register and will abide by the prevailing local rules."

Nigel,

I don't know Branny's stand on this but, my view is that, it will be a difficult process now to make any changes to the code of conduct.

Having secured an endorsement from the I.O.V. backing the society, it was on condition that the wording in the code of conduct remains unchanged.

I really can't see the problem with the wording as it is, either you will be allowed to film everything or, you won't, changing a paragraph in the code is going to make little difference.

EDIT : Sorry, that appears a little abrupt, it's not intended to read that way but, I ain't typing it again. :)

I drink to steady my nerves. Last night I got so steady I couldn't move. Wedding video essex

nigelbb
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Pete, as an IoV member I was surprised at the IoV endorsement as there has been no discussion & IoV members haven't been informed of this endorsement.

The problem is that the paragraph is just plain wrong & gives a commitment to restrict our filming that is unnecessary

Quote:
you can be assured that no filming of the register itself will take place

If the Code of Conduct cannot be changed then it's a shame that this whole process was all so rushed that there was no opportunity to discuss the CoC before everybody was required to sign up to it. In any case the CWFS isn't really a society is it? Where are the articles of association? Who are the officers? Who voted for them? The CWFS exists just as a website based on a document written by one person to which we are all being asked to endorse on a take it or leave it basis.

Pete Allen
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If you read though the threads Nigel, you will see that there was invitation and, discussion regarding the wording.

I drink to steady my nerves. Last night I got so steady I couldn't move. Wedding video essex

nigelbb
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Joined: Jun 15 2010

The first draft of the CoC was published on this forum on 11th May & it was live on the website ten days later. Given the relatively few contributors to this this forum amongst all the people filming weddings nationwide that doesn't seem much of a consultation period. Perhaps if one of the IoV members here had posted on the IoV forums regarding the CWFS & the CoC there would have been more contributors & discussion here. As it was the discussion was mostly on typos & grammar not content. The discussion regarding this paragraph (& it's not just me who has a problem with it) has been dismissed by Branny who not only write the original but appears to have the final say on what the document contains.

I think that the aims are laudable but the rushed nature of the whole process along with lack of consultation & contributions from others leaves a lot to be desired.

Mintyslippers
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Please add us

mintyslippers.com
0845 224 1562
Bedfordshire based / UK coverage

branny
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Cheers Minty I'll add you today. :)

Re nigelbb :- This article was originally discussed and open for further discussion and alteration by everyone on this forum. It certainly won't be perfect for everybody and if it doesn't suit there's no compulsion to join us, but eventually after many discussions and alterations it was uploaded. It suits the Exec at the IOV and the APV and it was with their final say so this was adhered to.
I'm sure if there had been the slightest problem with the wording by either the IOV exec or APV it would have been mentioned by them prior to their approval.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Arthur.S
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Exactly. This originated on this forum, but anyone is welcome to put their name to it. If you don't feel able.....errrr....don't! "Consultation periods", etc sound like quango speak to me. Going back to the IOV and APV now is a backward step.

nigelbb
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branny wrote:
Re nigelbb :- This article was originally discussed and open for further discussion and alteration by everyone on this forum.

There was no discussion on this point. The objections that myself & others raised to this paragraph on signing the register were just ignored.

Chrome
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Joined: May 26 1999

Certainly no need to go back to the APV - I helped branny with the structure and wording and therefore I am more than happy to put the APV endorsement on it... When I got involved, to be honest there were very few coming forward to make a positive contribution. :D
I think changing the wording regarding register signing now could be counter productive. It's non-confrontational which will help to smooth the relationship in the future. :D

Good luck to all the members who take this on, I see it as a very positive step in the right direction in helping to 'educate' and work in partnership rather than being in conflict with the clergy and church authorities.

Kevin Cook
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Joined: Nov 21 2001

If it helps I don't think the IOV's exec would have any objections to Nigel's slight tweak of the clause on signing the register...

"All operators are aware that there may be sensitivities regarding filming of the signing of the register and will abide by the prevailing local rules"

When the IOV first attempted to tackle this problem back in 2004 we approached the General Registry Office (England & Wales) - who confirmed that filming the signing of the Marriage Certificate may breach copyright (the certificate itself is in copyright). However, if this sequence is filmed in a way that does not include a close-up or detailed shot of the certificate - it would be OK.

But, as we all know, facts are interpreted in different ways and each minister can pretty much impose what rules they like in their church - within reason - and as long as they don't upset their PCC (Parochial Church Council). Maybe when you come across an awkward vicar you should lobby their PCC instead. ; )

For those that have not seen it, the IOV did produce its own guidance notes back in 2004for its members to distribute to local churches to help in these situations and also for them to use as a general marketing tool. (http://www.iov.co.uk/iov_media/SampleDocs/GuidanceNotesonFilmingWeddingCeremoniesPRINT.pdf) This document does not specifically mention the signing of the register - but does say that the videographer should accept any reasonable restrictions imposed on them.

Kevin Cook
IOV Executive Administrator

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Thanks for your input Kevin. I agree that opinions amongst the clergy vary enormously and having covered 400 + weddings I find that probably 50% have no problems with the live signing. They all allow the posed one afterwards, but it's the 'live' one that is probably the most poignant (and realsitic) and I personally feel that by trying to coax reluctant clergy into allowing more live signings the final product is much more emotive.
The current wording does say "where 'live signing' is allowed you can be assured that no filming of the register itself will take place" - some are reading it as "no filming of the register signing will take place". . . a subtle difference.
As the IOV and APV + all current members have already agreed to the current wording and I personally feel it will help in coaxing a little more realism from these ceremonies then I'd prefer to keep the current wording.
I will however change it to the suggested alternative if enough members require it and it still meets with IOV & APV endorsement. :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

branny
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As this is relevant to most members on here, I will keep bringing it to everyone's attention so we can all stay focussed on the mutual benefits and any new ideas on promotion.
I'm hoping the mods will make this as a sticky too :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999

I've so far done 3 church weddings and sent e-mails to clergy beforehand. Have another 3 coming up for the next 3 weekends, and have/will be e-mailing them too. So far.....a bit of a lukewarm response. I don't think they quite know what to make of it! :)

This was one of them: Any other suggestions on wording?

Dear Mr.........,

We will be filming Tom & Kelly's wedding this Saturday the 18th. Unfortunately, I won't be able to attend the rehearsal on Tuesday as we have another wedding to attend that day. I'll arrive early on Saturday around 11:15 so would appreciate access to the church then for establishing shots and to get set up. Hopefully we can have a chat then concerning camera positions. We are one of the founder members of The Church Wedding Filming Society, so fully understand the sensitivities of the occasion. http://churchwedfilmsociety.co.uk/

I look forward to meeting you on Saturday.

Kind regards,

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Good man Arthur, that's the way to do it! Being pro active is the only way we can all make the point about our mutual standards of behaviour.
I have a Cathedral wedding in the next few weeks and will be sending a similar introduction too.
I'm also hoping that during our 1st year many clergy will respond positively on our website and begin to recognise our genuine sincerity.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

evans david
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Joined: Dec 25 2004

Re Arthur's email, I am not a wedding videographer but have followed this board with interest and can see it all from the other side.
Firstly, why hack someone off in the first word by omitting their title, all priests and deacons are styled The Reverend.
Secondly, it is not their fault that you have not attended the rehearsal so perhaps a shade more humility or contact earlier than the wedding day would help.
Lastly, what if the wedding is at 3pm, do you expect the vicar to waste four hours while you turn up, or do you expect him to pay someone else to open up for you. Someone will have to be there to ensure that you, as an unknown person, do not nick the silver/knock things over/burn the place down and so I think you need to be rather more understanding. As it stands it appears that you want everything done to accommodate you, even more so as you did not attend the rehearsal nor contact afterwards when all this could have been discussed.

Sorry if this causes huge amounts of opprobrium to fall on my head but I can see how a sensitive vicar would take offence.

branny
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Glad you've been following this ED. I would assume Arthur and anyone else would use the full Rev title when writing emails to clergy.
We don't attend any church wedding rehearsals, but they are already aware there will be video coverage as permission is always requested by the bride & groom. The email will just confirm the operator's name and outline their requests.
The verger is always at church a couple of hours before the vicar and these are the ones who open up and know where 'usual video positions' will be.
I presume the 11-15 request by Arthur is only an hour or so prior to the ceremony rather than the 4 hour that you imagine.
Hope this improves your understanding of wedding videography at churches. :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Arthur.S
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evans david wrote:
Re Arthur's email, I am not a wedding videographer but have followed this board with interest and can see it all from the other side.
Firstly, why hack someone off in the first word by omitting their title, all priests and deacons are styled The Reverend.
Secondly, it is not their fault that you have not attended the rehearsal so perhaps a shade more humility or contact earlier than the wedding day would help.
Lastly, what if the wedding is at 3pm, do you expect the vicar to waste four hours while you turn up, or do you expect him to pay someone else to open up for you. Someone will have to be there to ensure that you, as an unknown person, do not nick the silver/knock things over/burn the place down and so I think you need to be rather more understanding. As it stands it appears that you want everything done to accommodate you, even more so as you did not attend the rehearsal nor contact afterwards when all this could have been discussed.

Sorry if this causes huge amounts of opprobrium to fall on my head but I can see how a sensitive vicar would take offence.

No offence taken evans. But let me address your points. re the title, if I was writing a letter, then for sure. But e-mail is a far more casual - and brief - way of communication. I asked the couple for a name/e-mail of who to contact at the church, so used that. How would I really know if/what his title is? I didn't say that he was the Vicar. In fact, the couple didn't know the name of the vicar as he was a 'stand in' for the day.
As Branny sez, no one in their right mind would want to be at the church 4 hours before the ceremony, I generally aim for about an hour and 15mins or so. Re the 'pay' to open up the church. The church is usually well paid to allow filming, so opening up to allow it an hour or so early shouldn't be a massive request! If you read it again, you'll see that particular e-mail was sent before the rehearsal, so plenty of time to discuss things if need be. I attend as many rehearsals as I can, but no way would I turn down a job to attend one. We're in business after all. How many rehearsals do photographers attend? I've only ever seen it once - and he was a family friend. Interesting to hear what could be the take from the clergy on this though.

De Rienzo Films
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This is a fascinating thread and despite differences in opinion we have to applaud and encourage those who have taken the time to get the ball rolling and make this happen.

We too are similar to Branny in that we don't attend the actual rehearsals (some of our weddings are hundreds of miles away!):) but we do make sure that the couple have notified all concerned regarding filming in the church, and ultimately we will always abide by the church rules.

I look forward to hearing from anyone who has had any response to letters as I will also keep people updated in the future.

Keep up the great work:)

De Rienzo Films
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I did forget to add!. and this is just my personal experience.

We have not been in any situation where we have been asked not to film or indeed film at the back.

We have had disgruntled vicars and priests initially on the day, but call this strange, sometimes a look of acknowledgent as who is in charge, a calming voice and a submission and respect for their authority changes their tune....strange!... but pychology comes into play here:)

We, by showing respect have in turn gained their respect.

Now, I hope I have not dug my own grave, but to date this has worked for us...sometimes, less said on the matter is more.......When we try and force our argument we may just get the opposite reaction.

Gently does it:)

branny
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That's the main purpose behind the CWFS Jon. To coax and reassure those with reservations about video coverage.
As time goes by and fellow members pull together by referring to the CWFS code of conduct in correspondence/emails/phone conversations word will spread.
It will obviously take time to establish our credentials with church ministers but our professional behaviour should pay dividends with referred work coming via the ministers if we all keep up the standards and help promote it.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

branny
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Well, I'm trying guys. I've emailed the big churches, inc a Cathedral, we've filmed at in the last few weeks to ask for endorsements, but no joy so far. I'm gonna follow these up later in the year with formal letters too. Gotta keep pushing!

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

branny
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Good news on the CWFS front. Got a full page editorial in a county wedding magazine. Asked to give advice on 'booking a video for your wedding' - Mentioned the CWFS and our aims. Every little helps :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

De Rienzo Films
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That is excellent news Branny:) When is it due out and where?

Cheers.

branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001

Hi Jon - Just waiting for the editors confirmation. Not sure on issue date yet, but the magazine is 'The Yorkshire Bride' wish it luck :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

branny
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While it's slowing down on the wedding front and quietish on the forum, could I ask all members to make a note of all the weddings they've covered and follow up with the CWFS details in either email, or better still, a letter.
It'd be a shame if our mutual efforts in maintaining high quality coverage in churches remained unnoticed and oh so good for the future of the society if we were acknowledeged for our care and commitment.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999

You're a mind reader Branny...just about to send a copy of a wedding shot in a church that wouldn't allow any video or photography in. I managed to convince him to allow us 2 cameras...the togs got none! Longest C of E wedding I've ever covered with a full Mass, so thought I'd send the vicar a copy. Goodwill to all men an' all that. :)

branny
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Well done Arthur! The best way of convincing reluctant clergy is to show them our code of conduct is more than just words and by sending a DVD it should illustrate our coverage is considerate.
I've sent a few DVDS off over the years as thanks to clergy and if we could all do this to every wedding we've covered this year it would certainly make a difference.
So . . . for the cost of a couple of £s each there's no better way to show our discreet coverage.
The clergy gets a 'gift' in the post and a covering letter which should make serious headway into our mutual cause.

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

tom hardwick
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branny wrote:
I've sent a few DVDS off over the years as thanks to clergy

How interesting. I've often thought I should do this and in all my years of shooting weddings in churches I've never sent a DVD to the clergy. My wife has often suggested I send a copy, and especially so to the 'difficult' priests, where my film would show how our 20x zooms mean we don't have to wander about and our editing skills make the clergy look good and more importantly sound good.

The clergy too have their stresses on the day and they must miss a lot being wrapped up in their own religious world. Watching the DVD would show them how lovely their flowers looked, how well the choir sang, how nervous the groom actually was in closeup and how magnificent the church looked in wideangle.

I'm pretty sure most clergy 'tolerate' us as they tolerate stout brides' inappropriate cleavage up at the alter. To fill the church they need to have this tolerance of modern society of course, but I do think a copy of our sympathetically edited films could put them at their ease.

Sometimes I've seen the priest at the reception as a guest, so maybe my films have indeed been seen by the clergy, unbeknown to me.

tom.

branny
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We all probably underestimate the impact of our wedding coverage on the clergy.
It may be that many still view us as 'you've been framed' peddlers and don't realise the majority of us are there to reflect the dignity and beauty of the occasion.
All the more reason for everyone to send DVDs off to all the vicars at this year's weddings along with a covering letter bearing the CWFS code of conduct. :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Runaround Who
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Re: Church Wedding Filming Society participants
Not been on the forum for quite a while but this reads very well indeed. Can we still be added to this and is there a link to follow that I've probably missed ;-)
 

www.electrafilms.co.uk Watching life and filming the best bits ...

branny
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Re: Church Wedding Filming Society participants
Runaround Who wrote:
Not been on the forum for quite a while but this reads very well indeed. Can we still be added to this and is there a link to follow that I've probably missed ;-)
 
 
Hi - Just pm or email Pete or myself your details and we'll add you. Here's the link to our website http://churchwedfilmsociety.co.uk/
 
A nice response from a Vicar today. Following a difficult wedding where a tog and video played up, he contacted Pete to ask if he could use our code of conduct as a yardstick for couples who are getting married and want coverage. 
He would also like a member near to Cheltenham to give a little talk to a massed group of couples when he holds a talk on wedding coverage. So, if any member near there feels brave enough to chat about 'decent' standards of coverage, feel free to contact Pete.
 

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Runaround Who
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Re: Church Wedding Filming Society participants
Thank you Branny. Just read the link and it is a very sensible common sense code that anyone with any sense should be following automatically so well done indeed.
 
At the risk of sounding anal you might want to delete the apostrophes in it's featured twice on the home page. (its ministers and its grounds). Apostrophe would only be needed in both instances if the word could be changes to it is so in both cases it should be its
 
​Your guest book also has some rather strange messages so not sure if you can delete them??
 
Will PM you now
 
Regards - Karrie
 
 

www.electrafilms.co.uk Watching life and filming the best bits ...

branny
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Re: Church Wedding Filming Society participants
Spell/spam checked and . . . you're added!

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Runaround Who
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Re: Church Wedding Filming Society participants
Many thanks! - Karrie

www.electrafilms.co.uk Watching life and filming the best bits ...