Changing over.

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flyingscotsman
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Hello everyone. 
 
This should be fairly straight forward. I have been filming for a while with a Canon XLS 1 and transferring to my PC via a Sony GV-HD700E HDV Recorder. Everything has been fine but I recently acquired a JVC GY-HD101E to try out the HD shooting. As this is only a hobby for me I don't want to blow loads of cash going down the wrong route but what I have found is that although the HD700 plays footage from the JVC it will not copy over to the pc.  All the information I have found currently is very misleading as to why this is the case. Can anyone explain in fairly simple terms what is the most likely problem?  I realise it could simply be the firewire card, but could it also be the very inflexible HD 700?
 
Any suggestions would be very welcome. Many thanks for any replies.
 
foxvideo
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Re: Changing over.
flyingscotsman wrote:
This should be fairly straight forward.
 
Not quite!
 
The HD101E shoots HD in a totally different format to the Sony, it's a JVC format called ProHD and shouldn't (can't) be read by the Sony which uses the HDV format.
 
The JVC HD format is notorious for being inconsistant with FW out from the camera, often on Macs and especially on PC's. The HD101E is also well known for blowing it's FW out unless it's been modded by JVC - mine blew and cost me £350 to be repaired and modded.
 
Standard DV shot on the JVC 101E will play / should play in the Sony unit but I'm fairly sure it won't play if you've shot the ProHD format with the 101E although I never actually tried with mine. You'll either have to play HD out from the camera if the socket is OK or get a JVC BR-HD50 deck.

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

flyingscotsman
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Re: Changing over.
Hell, as you say - not quite. Well I haven't even tried connecting direct as I know the difficulties with compatibility on these. I didn't however know that it was a different flavour HD. Okay, so it looks like I will have to scratch all the tape shot on that camera.  (It was damn good footage too)  So I am guessing my next move should be a Sony HD of about the same vintage - It's a real shame as I was getting on very well with the JCV.  Thanks for the quick reply.
foxvideo
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Re: Changing over.
I have a BR-HD50 - if you shot HD on the JVC I can access it with my deck.

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

foxvideo
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Re: Changing over.
What are you using to edit? have you actually tried to capture the footage via FW to a PC? If all else fails I can get the footage off tape to a format you can work with.

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

flyingscotsman
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Re: Changing over.
To keep the cost down and due to running Windows 7 rather than mac I have been using Sony Vegas, I do however have a problem with my machine seeing cameras of any description through the firewire connection. It sees the Sony deck fine though and as I'm not keen on wearing my camera heads out I never try to connect direct from the camera. Another question I have, does this problem still apply using a HDMI connection? It's really odd to see the Sony deck playing the footage really well and not being able to send it to the pc.  
The footage isn't that important, I shot it at a local event and I was going to make a little film for some WW2 reenactors. 
foxvideo
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Re: Changing over.
I don't understand how the Sony deck is playing ProHD footage - are you sure you shot HD and not DV with the JVC 101E? If you can capture HDMI on the PC there should be no reason it won't capture - I use HDMI out from the BR-HD50 to a Blackmagic card with no problem.

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

flyingscotsman
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Re: Changing over.
I am "fairly" sure I had it in HD but it was the first time out with this machine, I will check it later as it was packed away straight after the shoot.  But then again, even if it is in DV would it be able to be digitised from the Sony given that the JVC has a differing format? Or is that just in HD? 
 
Yes, the PC had HDMI but I have never had cause to use it (not having a cable) as with the Canon I have had no trouble. Maybe this would solve the problem then? Or is it the case that the different format would stay the main problem?
 
I will check the settings of the JVC and report back but I have just checked the footage on the Sony and it plays back superbly. 
 
Again, many thanks for your quick reply.
 
 
 
EDIT:
 
I can confirm that it was certainly shot in HD.  That is probably the bad news then. :)
 
foxvideo
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Re: Changing over.
Strange the 700 plays it - the specs say:
 
SD Recording/Playback
DV, Mini Cassette Only
HDV Playback
DV, Mini Cassette
 
As mentioned, the JVC is ProHD 720p - not in the list, I did notice the 700 will play 720p which is probably what you used on the 101E so maybe this is an unknown fact it'll play on the Sony HDV!
 
Does your version of Vegas support 720p?
 
If it's playing as you say, and Vegas supports HD720p input, it should let you capture it either by FW or HDMI. Otherwise use the FW HD out of the 101 to a capture input of 720p, I wouldn't worry about wearing out heads for just one tape!

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

flyingscotsman
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Re: Changing over.
Yeah , it was in 720p, but as I expected the PC doesn't recognise the JVC.  I'm pretty sure that is a Win 7 issue. 
 
The really odd thing is that when I use Vegas to capture, it controls the Sony deck and goes through the motions and the footage plays through on the Sony monitor but when I stop it there is an Exception Error and Vegas closes down. I also tried a copy of Ulead and almost the same thing happened except I got BSOD.  
foxvideo
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Re: Changing over.
You've got me at a loss then!
 
I had a HD101 for a year or so, still got the BR-HD50 deck, I got on well with it using Final Cut Pro and a Mac, very good quality @ 720p for web stuff, only got rid of it when I got a JVC HM700 shooting to SD cards.

Dave Farrants Fox Video Editing

flyingscotsman
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Re: Changing over.
I love it but needs must, it will have to go as I can't afford to get a capture deck just for that.  
I took it out on Sunday for the first time on a shoot - always daunting as I'm not a 'full auto' sort of chap and although at first I struggled with lighting by the end of the day I was really at home with it. It's heavier than the Canon but somehow it feels like it won't let you down. 
 
Once again, thanks for trying to help, somehow it's therapeutic knowing it isn't something you did wrong. Well, except for buying it without coming on here first......
Gavin Gration
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Re: Changing over.
Sony decks tend to play all sorts on the screen or via analogue but will only squirt native 1080i HDV, DVCAM or DV over firewire.
 
I wouldn't worry about wearing the heads out - not unless you are filming tons and tons of stuff. I know loads of people over many years who don't have a deck. Their cameras get hammered relentlessly with no ill effects. Lots of other bits seem to die well before the heads get poorly.
 
If the firewire port on your camera works then use it. If you're worried about frying it then there are firewire surge protectors available.
 
 
Hope this helps.
infocus2
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Re: Changing over.
foxvideo wrote:
The HD101E shoots HD in a totally different format to the Sony, it's a JVC format called ProHD and shouldn't (can't) be read by the Sony which uses the HDV format.
 
The HD101 does indeed use a different format to Sony but it's *NOT* called ProHD - the format is officially HDV1, as opposed to HDV2 as used by Sony. They have a lot of things in common - but big difference is that HDV1 is 19Mbs and 720p, whereas HDV2 is 25Mbs and 1080i. I've forgotten the details after all this time, but it doesn't surprise me that a Sony deck will replay an HDV1 tape, at least output the raw data via Firewire. AFAIK, HDV1 came first, Sony adapted the format for their own needs - namely to give 1080i.
 
ProHD is not a format as such, rather a marketing "brand" that was used by JVC at the time for this range of cameras - don't get it confused with "DVCProHD", a professional standard from Panasonic of the era, with a far higher datarate. Wikipedia gives the differences, and says the following about JVC and "ProHD":
 
Quote:
A common misconception is that JVC developed a proprietary extension to HDV called ProHD, featuring film-like 24-frame/s progressive recording mode and LPCM audio, for professional use. JVC has clarified that ProHD is not a video recording format, but "an approach for delivering affordable HD products" and a common name for "bandwidth efficient professional HD models".
flyingscotsman
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Joined: Aug 5 2013
Re: Changing over.
Thanks for the info everyone. Back to square one.
DAVE M
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Joined: May 17 1999
Re: Changing over.
Can you switch your capture to "non controllable device" and capture over firewire that way?
 
You need to start manually.
 
 I still use a DSR25 for long non HD stuff but the easiest thing if you're worried about head wear is to buy the cheapest camera that plays your format.
a deck is a deck (format not withstanding)
flyingscotsman
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Joined: Aug 5 2013
Re: Changing over.
Hello Dave and thanks for the reply.
 
I haven't tried that to be honest as the JVC doesn't show with the pc I gave up trying. I will give it a go. 
 
I had thought about buying a cheap mini dv JVC just for conversion but.....  after looking on ebay it seems that  (a) I can't find out if the smaller JVC cameras use the same DV format as you say, and (b) if it can be guaranteed that the poxy 64 bit Win 7 will actually see the camera. 
 
I tried bouncing the signal from the JVC to the Canon this morning but that is a 'no go'. 
DAVE M
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Joined: May 17 1999
Re: Changing over.
anybody know if premiere elements would work?
 
once captured you might be able to import to Vegas
flyingscotsman
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Joined: Aug 5 2013
Re: Changing over.
I would still have to get the pc to see the camera and that issue isn't going away.  From what I can gather this camera isn't the easiest for pc's to communicate with and with all the Win 7 issues that were never resolved I think that anything that involves connecting direct is doomed to failure. It would also seem that most low end JVC camcorders also have connecting issues. As changing to Mac isn't an option it is looking more and more as though my only option is moving away from anything made by JVC.