Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th

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Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999
Looking for an experienced op to cover speeches/guest messages and maybe first dance. This Thursday 19th in the Reading area. Very short notice I know, but the client has only just sprung on me that they'd like a same day edit. There are 2 of us at the moment. I'll do the edit during the speeches etc.
Apologies for putting this here as well as situations vacant, but thought I might get a better response here.
 
branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
Hey up Arthur - Didn't know you were doing SDEs? - Best of luck with th OP

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Gig Filmer
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Joined: May 26 2013
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
I'm an experienced cameraman and I'm available on Thursday but I might also have a solution to your "Same Day Edit".
 
It's a multi-camera mix/switch/record set-up for up to 6 HD cams via HDMI, YUV or Y/C. SDI requires an inexpensive expansion card.
It records direct to hard drive at, typically, 50 Mbps MPEG2 TS, although it can handle other formats including uncompressed HD with SSD drives.
 
I've been testing at live performances for a while and it's never let me down. Video quality is, to my eyes, simply incredible, even using single chip consumer cams. As I understand it the HDMI or YUV outputs are uncompressed and straight from the imaging chips.
 
The recorded "mix" can include up to 6 HD cameras and audio feeds (not necessarily camera audio), as well as pre-recorded video, audio, stills and title files.
It is also possible to mix these items as a live production - if you are brave, or perhaps desperate as your deadline approaches. This could include cards straight from a camera.
 
There are all sorts of bells and whistles like streaming output, chroma and luma keying, slo-mo instant replays, stings etc, etc, more suited to sports events rather than a wedding or live performance.
 
The whole thing is the size of a PC with one monitor and camera leads can be up to 40m (max tested so far) but much more with baluns I believe.
 
Let me know what you think.
 
Gig
 
 
Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
Have you covered weddings before Gig? This is a big one. I'm working with someone already who, although vastly experienced, hasn't covered a wedding before. Your set up sounds interesting, but at this late stage I can't afford to work with something so complicated that I don't know anything about. Unlike a 'normal' SDE they want the ceremony on a loop for the evening. Their choice. I'll probably just include the entrance/vows/rings/exit.
Gig Filmer
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Joined: May 26 2013
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
I've done a couple of single camera wedding shoots and edits many years ago, but not with this current set-up. 
 
It was really the SDE that made me think that the multi-cam set-up would be suitable. It's what it does.
 
I think it could work very well, given time to plan and test the work flow, but obviously that's not available before Thursday - pity.
 
I would still like to try it at some point, preferably in a location where a couple of hours rigging time is availabe, so probably not a church.
 
Streaming live to the internet could be a selling point too.
 
It could be an option that you could offer as I've absolutely no interest in dealing with clients directly.
DAVE M
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Joined: May 17 1999
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
Although I do loads of live multicam stuff and have never done a wedding, I don't think a live mix is what you'd be after for a SDE.
 
 You'd end up with too much stuff to wade through to do the SDE.
A wedding's too short to justify a multicam set up, and loads of it takes place outside the church/holy venue.
 
 I do gigs too, and always shoot iso and multicam it as the logistics of a live rock gig don't blend with a multicam rig.
 
SDE's are more run and gun stuff.
I assume that if you've done a few, the edit can pretty much follow a formula ( I know that sounds a little uncreative) and the future ones can be done pretty quickly.
Gig Filmer
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Joined: May 26 2013
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
Hi Dave,
 
Thanks for the benefit of your experience and your opinion.
 
I'm puzzled, however, as to why you think a live mix would generate "too much stuff to wade through". 
 
The mix will be the equivalent of one camera, except that it is already "edited" and on the hard drive ready for immediate playback, and in a format ready for further editing, if necessary.
 
My system has a sequencer that allows videos to be trimmed and then played in, well errrr........ a sequence. The main mix can be chopped up very quickly, transitions added, and then the "outside venue bits" can be added to the list playing straight from the camera card.
 
An SDE ready in time for the guests lining up at the reception. Oh and then the main show, including the first dance just 10 minutes after that first dance. I'm only saying it's possible, not desirable.
 
I'd be interested to hear your workflow for rock gigs, how you control and monitor the cameras, how you transfer the video (from cards?), what multi-cam software you use etc.
I find I have to faff around transferring files from the cameras and then convert them to a format suitable for multicam editing, it's very time consuming.
 
I'm more into acoustic music, probably an age thing ;-)
 
Gig
 
DAVE M
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Joined: May 17 1999
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
I'd guess that shooting a wedding entails getting certain money shots that are easier to access when individually  accessible as clips.
 
I've never done a wedding, although I photographed a couple yonks ago for mates.
 
I've made  highlights videos (which is basically what an SDE wedding video is) of a live mix where I cut down two 2 hour recordings that were made 'on the side" as the primary use of the multicam mix was for video relay.
This was to publicise the next year's event and be a bit of a souvenir of the event. ie all the boring stuff taken out.
I knew that I had the material, but finding certain shots was a pain, and I after a while I began to shoot some stuff in camera in order to get the good stuff concentrated in a smaller package.
 
There's also the H&S problems of rigging the church.
There used to be loads of threads on the old BB about Vicars getting the hump about a tripod, let alone enough cable and coms to go around the graveyard.
 
i'm not saying that it's a bad idea, but you don't get the chance to cock up a wedding. which is why I run away from them.
 
gigs wise, I run all the cameras iso. the operators are briefed to always stay in record and it's imported into FCP which will run 16 cameras if necessary, possibly more. The most I've done is 7, but a mate regularly runs 9 and over.
he does classical stuff at the Albert Hall
using multicam allows the same creativity as a live mix but you can fix or redo any mistakes.
You can also have unmanned cameras on remote heads (a pain for a one off) or just bung in a GoPro
 
I'm a mix of tape and card, he's on s x s
 
We tend to use the camera audio as the guide when editing but replace it with a better recording that's had work on it by a sound guy, although a stereo pair from the desk is ok (ish)
 
I still record a fair bit on a DSR25, bearing in mind the principle object of my live mixes is relay, but I've just been playing with a Black Magic Ultradeck and it's amazing value for money, although as one of my gigs involves recording 20 hrs of material while away from home, and producing DVD's asap once back, tape is still financially a better bet overloads of SSDs or lugging a computer around to dump the drives to.
 
Better not hi-jack  Athur's post as he's looking for an op for tomorrow
Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
All sounds very interesting, and could definitely be a possibility...if clients are prepared to pay for it. That's the bottom line. A shame that this came up so late, because I'm sure that this particular client would have gone for it. Probably the most expensive wedding I've ever attended. They even - at the last minute - had a covered walk way erected from the road to the church door for the bride when they saw the weather report! (She needed it). 
 
Anyway, the ceremony edit was not without it's problems, including being locked in to the room I was working in, and having to climb out of the window! It was shown in a silly place on a projector/screen in the corner of the room where all the dancing was. In the 'quiet' room where people sat and chatted there was a 50" panny on the wall! Made far more sense to show it on there, but......the client pays, and the client gets what they want.
branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
I didn't know you'd started doing SDE's Arthur - I was wondering how you'd gone on and I'm not surprised there were glitches, there always is.
It's a high stress add on, but very worthwhile financially and for your business. I've offered them for quite a few years now and always do the edit over sandwiches while they're dining so it's ready for just before the first dance, though in your case it wasn't so much a SDE in the traditional (?) sense, but the ceremony in it's entirety  I believe. Bet you're glad it's over!

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Arthur.S
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Joined: Jun 2 1999
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
I've never offered it before Branny. 1. I didn't have the equipment to either edit it, or show it. 2. I didn't fancy the stress! I was asked by this client 3 days before the wedding!  As luck would have it, my Laptop had recently died, so replaced with a new one which is up to the job, and also recently purchased another storage HDD. Both of which are USB3. This SDE almost paid for both. smiley I've also bought 2 new card based cams only 5 days ago! I had no plans to use them for this wedding, but obviously they made this much quicker to ingest the footage. I edited a test project the day before, so knew the equipment/software all worked together. The client provided the means to show it.
Will I do another one? I might offer it as a service and see if people are prepared to pay enough for removing even more of my hair!! laugh But keen? not really. indecision
branny
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Joined: Nov 6 2001
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
Since I first started showing the SDE nearly every wedding wants one. 200 guests all stood watching the one song edit just before the first dance is a captive audience and brings so much business in.  £300 is what we charge and once you get a rhythym off on editing they can be done in one hour or so. We also film the guests reaction swhile they're watching and the repsonse has always been unbelieveable.
I only have a basic laptop and a very simple edit programme, so SD goes through so well. Nerve wracking for the first few you do, but after a few edits they do get les stressful.
Go for it!! :)

Do not follow, I may not lead. Do not lead . . . I may not follow.

Gig Filmer
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Joined: May 26 2013
Re: Camera op for half day this Thursday 19th
Well done Arthur, you pulled it off. It all sounds far too "last minute" for my liking - new laptop etc., you're a braver man than me.
 
I was thinking of you on Thursday and feeling oddly guilty that I hadn't helped out. Perhaps because I was going through an SDE work flow with my system and ticking off the boxes, yes, every single one!
 
And all in 50mbps 1920x1080 4:2:2 HD.