To HD or not to HD? - documentary films

[Escribano]

First off, I would like to introduce myself and say hello. Looks like an interesting place to hang out and ask for help. I may be able to offer some too, who knows?

I have made my first documentary http://www.foroflamenco.com/elguitarrero/ and planning my next one.

I shot "El Guitarrero - the making of a flamenco guitar" on a Panasonic DVX100A, edited in Sony Vegas and it is selling direct quite nicely.

Now I am planning my second and struggling with going to HD or not. I do not expect to be broadcast any time soon and very happy with my DVX but I was wondering about whether HD should be an imminent upgrade.

I will be selling my next one in much the same way, home production, direct marketing etc. but think I would feel happier with HD footage pulled down to SD for sales, on the basis that I have HD on disk for future Blu Ray sales.

What is your opinion of swapping the DVX100A for the Sony HVR-A1E. Do they compare well, as technology and prices move on or would you keep the DVX and carry on in SD for a while longer?


Thanks in advance.

[Des]

I'd go HDV but not sure about the Sony A1 as the choice. I shot some footage in the Antarctic on the Sony A1 and it was pretty good but I used it because of the size. I find the Sony Z1 and FX1 much better. The real advantage of HDV over SD here I think is the increase from around 6 stops of dynamic range to a little of 10 stops and of course having a more pro look with the 16:9 aspect ratio let alone future proofing witha sharper image.

[infocus]

I'd go HDV but not sure about the Sony A1 as the choice.
That was my first thought, but I'd tend to suggest a Z7 over a Z1 these days. More money than an A1, true,but I think the difference you'll find worth it for professional use. You get what you pay for.

[Steamage]

Also consider the Canon XH-A1 - probably the best image quality per pound and does progressive footage better than current Sony FX1/Z1. If you can wait until the new year, check out the new Sony FX1000/Z5 (essentially a fixed-lens version of the Z7 mentioned above) which will replace the FX1/Z1. If smaller size and weight are important, try the Sony FX7/V1 (smallest 3-chip HDV cam at the moment). If the Z7 appeals, then also consider the Canon XL-H1 which has interchangeable lenses and, on some models, HD-SDI output.

[Escribano]

I also identified the Canon XH-A1 if I was to throw my budget out the window. My DVX100A was bought used for £1700, and I cannot justify spending more right now.

On top of that, and more importantly, I want to carry the thing around more often to grab library footage rather than leaving in a box between projects.

So, I have pretty much decided to buy the HVR-A1E and learn from it. £1650 inc. VAT and a free case from Prestons. I'll check out the FX7 at the same time. Thanks.

[Des]

The Sony A1 mic is omnidirectional and is particuarly adept at picking up camera handling sounds. The mic holder too is a disaster if you put a mic into it. I use a Rode SM5 Suspension Shockmount, this fits into the mic holder and supports a shockmount above it and works very well indeed. Only about £35 I think.

[Escribano]

Went up to Preston's in Malvern to have a look. I just couldn't get on with the Sony A1 as a main camera, way too small for my hands, way too small to sit on my Manfrotto 525/503 (like a pimple on a mountain), too small to take my two Sennheiser wireless receivers, too small to offer me the buttons, switches and dials I am used to.

No Canon XH A1s in stock (couldn't afford a new one anyway) but they had a decent used Z1 (one year guarantee) .... so I traded my trusty DVX100A and that brought the deal in not much over a new A1, plus 10 months to pay it off, so I am happy planning my next documentary.

Now to read the manual :cool:

[JGNattrass]

Good choice on the Z1 and a far better doco camera than the A1, good to hear 12 months gtee so it is a good buy and will give you good results.

[dvnam]

I'd be inclined to try to shoot some test footage with an A1 if at all possible, in a range of conditions, e.g low light to compare with the DVX, unless you can find a user with direct exoperience of both cams.

The HVR V1e has 3 x 1/4" CMOS chips, is smaller than the Z1 and is similar in performance but will yield better images than the A1. Prestons have a low hours, used model for £2300.

If you don't have the cash immediately available to upgrade, don't think you'd recoup the extra cost within a year, or your clients demand HD (don't neglect to factor in the additional cost for HD production, be it editing, monitoring, blu-ray burners etc) it may be advisable to hold on for a few more months before making the decision as part of your reasoning appears to be future proofing for HD.

[Escribano]

it may be advisable to hold on for a few more months before making the decision as part of your reasoning appears to be future proofing for HD.

Thanks but as you see, I went for a used Z1.

As the Z1 has a built-in downconverter to SD, I will use that on capture and keep the original HD tapes in archive.

It's worked out rather well, as I make "long tail" films where the subject matter is relatively timeless and they should keep selling slowly through minimal marketing and word-of-mouth.

This way, I can re-issue down the road and market a new "HD cut" to clients who bought the SD version. OK, I have to re-edit the whole thing but that's nice too, as I can always improve on the first edit and it won't be just a HD copy.

I made half my money back on the DVX100 outlay in 4 months with my current film, selling direct and producing DVDs on the kitchen table :cool: The rest went back into the Z1, so a net zero loss at the moment.

[JGNattrass]

Why not edit and do everything in HDV and then down convert to SD for delivery?

Your computer will do HDV just as easy as SD and you will cut out a lot of work in the long run.

This is what I do I do everything in HDV and then down convert from a prores master to SD DVD or output to M35 deck in Dvcam or DV.

[Escribano]

Umm, well... I'll try as you suggest as I am currently upgrading to VEGAS Pro. Thanks.

[fuddam]

yep, totally agree: edit in HDV, and render as SD for those clients who need it. Will DEFINITELY see an improvement in quality compared to downconvert in camera. Vegas is particularly good in this department (doing the downconversion better).

:)

[Escribano]

yep, totally agree: edit in HDV, and render as SD for those clients who need it. Will DEFINITELY see an improvement in quality compared to downconvert in camera. Vegas is particularly good in this department (doing the downconversion better).

:)

Cool, thanks for the advice. That saves me a few hours finding out for myself an one less feature of the Z1 to worry about.

[JGNattrass]

No probs a lot of people think HDV and panic it will take loads of processing, it is 25mbs the same as dvcam so it is better to keep it all HDV in the edit box and just export to suit delivery.

In personally use final cut studio 2 and have a HDV to pro res workflow at full 422 1920x1080i 50i that is then compressed for DVD,Web IPTV or SD DV or Dvcam.

[Escribano]

I got Vegas Pro installed OK and capturing HD fine. Guess I am set to go.

[JGNattrass]

Good luck and enjoy your new camera:D