BackupHDDVD, a tool to decrypt AACS protected movies

[fisherman]

Well, this encryption didn't seem to last long :-

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=119871

Early days, but looking promising.

[infocus]

If all that's true, I suspect Blu-Ray just got given a massive shot in the arm in the format war - unless it's copy protection gets cracked soon.

Put yourself in the position of the movie studios - with two rival systems, one that's apparently been cracked so easily, one that hasn't (yet), which would you feel happiest about trusting your content to!?!

[steve]

In the well financed war between the two consortia, wouldn't that be an effective way to win. Even the most radicle urban warrior has his price!

Steve

[StevenBagley]

It's not exactly cracked -- it's just a free implementation of the decoder built into HDDVD decoders.

You still need to obtain the decryption key from somewhere, which has been done it seems but is considerably non-trivial and seems to require a version of some software which is easy to hack the key out of. It is likely that player's code will be revoked and the software updated with a more secure version.

Steven

[infocus]

More on the story here:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/01/technology/01hack.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

In particular, quote: "If the HD-DVD protection system has indeed been compromised, it was not immediately clear which camp would benefit most directly.

Some posters in Internet discussion groups have argued that the cracking of HD-DVD may increase the popularity of the system among consumers eager to make copies of movies they have purchased.

At the same time, a weakened encryption system could undermine studio support, causing some to turn to the Blu-ray technology instead and giving the Blu-ray group an advantage in offering a wider range of content.

Personally, my take is that the second scenario is FAR more likely. Even rumours that HD-DVDs copy protection has been compromised is one of the best Christmas presents that the Blu-Ray camp could dared hoped for.

[fisherman]

The plot thickens.

The encryption code is used by both formats.

[steve]

But I believe that Blu-ray has a further layer of protection. So it would still be preferred by the MPAA over HDDVD.

[infocus]

But I believe that Blu-ray has a further layer of protection. So it would still be preferred by the MPAA over HDDVD.
From the same report that I linked above, quote: "The Blu-ray system adds modifiable copy protection software, known as BD Plus, that is based on an approach pioneered by a group of technologists at Cryptography Research in San Francisco as a safeguard in the event the A.A.C.S. is compromised.

So although the basic encryption code is the same for both formats (A.A.C.S.), Blu-Ray seems to make provision for "mending" any problem such as seems to have happened in this case. AFAIK, HD-DVD doesn't have this ability.

[mooblie]

HD-DVD copy protection would appear to have sustained another major breach in the last 48 hours, documented here (http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/05/02/stickin-it-to-the-man-the-illustrated-report-of-an-epic-event/)...

Apparently, the powers-that-be's legal approach is that a number can be copyrighted. (http://rudd-o.com/archives/2007/04/30/spread-this-number/)

When will the industry realise it's a waste of time, devising copy-protection?

As a miniscule producer myself, I regret this is the case. But as a realist, I know effective copy-protection is not going to happen.

[GlennChan]

Some forms of copy protection do work... though they are still annoying. The best example would be the Pro Tools "dongle" (the Pro Tools hardware).

And in satellite TV, there is an interesting technology war going on with people decrypting satellite TV signals. Every few/several months, the satellite companies get the upper hand and are able to stop reception to all the pirates (sometimes even zapping their cards). My incorrect Coles notes version of that anyways.

[mooblie]

Couldn't resist this one. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6cWpG5K0PY)

[StevenBagley]

I like the fact that the Cease and Desist letter to google actually contained the key they didn't want them to link to...

Steven

[Unicorn]

Some forms of copy protection do work... though they are still annoying. The best example would be the Pro Tools "dongle" (the Pro Tools hardware).


You mean they've actually produced a dongle that can't be cracked? My Avid, Fusion and Lightwave all have dongles, but I'm sure all of them are available to download in cracked versions for pirates.

The real benefit of dongles is that they ensure that most of your business customers will buy copies of your software. Without a dongle Bert can lend Joe his CD and Joe can install a second copy of the software without paying. With a dongle, even if Bert lends the CD, Joe can't run the second copy without downloading and installing a crack... which is probably a sackable offence in most companies if he's found out. Dongles don't stop determined pirates, but they discourage piracy by those who are otherwise law-abiding.

Personally, 'copy protection' discourages me from buying HD-DVDs and computer games. I'm sick of having to check that a game I've paid for will deign to run on my PC without giving some stupid copy protection error before I buy it... so I just don't buy many anymore. Dongles are at least invisible once installed, though I've got so many I have no free USB ports anymore.

Edit: Ooops, I just realised you were talking about the expensive hardware you need to run it, not the dongle for the software :). Yes, that's a good way to make people pay up :).

[infocus]

Latest twist on the BBC News web site: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6623331.stm

I particularly like the quotes from Michael Ayers, chair of the AACS business group, at the end:

"He added that the copy protection on the HD-DVDs was "absolutely not broken".

.........................The leak of the key did not affect hardware players, he said.

But he accepted that DVDs that had had their copy protection removed were "now in the clear" and could be copied."

What the BBC story does not go into (hardly surprisingly) was how this relates to the HD-DVD v Blu-Ray format war, which may be one of the most important factors for the consumer.

In spite of Mr Ayers assurances for the future, for HD-DVD to have been hacked so soon can surely only lead to a massive lack of confidence in it from the studios? And if Blu-Ray seems to have survived the hackers onslaughts for the time being, then if you were a studio, what would you do?

[Rob James]

A lttle browsing around Doom9, IT Pro etc. suggests Blu-ray won't be far behind. With the amount of hacker effort going into cracking AACS it can only be a matter of time.
Copy protection is a waste of time and effort. The money would be better spent lowering the price of the disks. If they are cheap enough, people generally don't bother to copy on a personal level and the possible profits from organized piracy are reduced to the point where, with a suitable level of enforcement, it is barely worth the risk.
Again, on the personal copying level, where is the real difference between recording broadcasts (radio or TV) off air for personal use and downloading for personal use? One is legal (at least in some countries) and the other isn't. Why?

[infocus]

If they are cheap enough, people generally don't bother to copy on a personal level and the possible profits from organized piracy are reduced to the point where, with a suitable level of enforcement, it is barely worth the risk.
I tend to agree. On a personal level, home copying is generally more for convienience reasons - to enable content to be viewed on another platform than it may be bought on, such as a home server. And it's wrong to think that every home dub represents a sale lost - often it just would be done without rather than bought.

On the commercial level, then the copies are either of poor quality (cameras in cinemas) or so professionally done that it's difficult to think of a copy protection that will offer much help. The real commercial criminals will have the necessary resources. So yes, why not devote the effort to catching and prosecuting the organised gangs, the commercial pirates?

As far as Blu-Ray/HD-DVD goes, then we'll see, but my understanding was that Blu-Ray is likely to be a much tougher nut than HD-DVD. And every day that goes by with HD-DVD hacked, but Blu-Ray not must be doing HD-DVD a lot of harm in the studios eyes. (Though maybe the opposite as far as consumers see it! :) )

[Rob James]

As an impecunious teenager I owned perhaps half a dozen records. I also owned a tape recorder and copied hours of music from the radio (and TV). I've spent the last thirty-odd years looking for and buying the ones I really liked. So, not only did those equivalents of PTP downloads not represent lost sales in the first place, but they actually acted as long term 'marketing'. I guess I could have downloaded a lot of them but then I wouldn't have the covers, the artwork, sleeve notes and something tangible. My teenagers are better off than I was but they still buy the things they really like. If they were prevented from downloading they would go back to recording off air but sales would not increase one iota. If anything they would fall because less material would be given wide exposure thanks to the conservative playlists most radio stations use.
The record industry is greedy and should have learned its lesson. The studios are in danger of making the same mistakes. (perhaps because many of them are also record companies). The real answer for music downloads at least is a licensing system. Near universal licensing is cheap to collect and relatively easy to enforce. (Think BBC!) The proceeds to be divided out in much the same way as PRS and MCPS payments now.

[rkgibbons]

I think that efforts to improve copy protection (though ultimately doomed to fail) serve their purpose quite well. They keep the average Joe from copying a product at a time when the product is still on that customers shopping list.

For example, the majority of people on this earth don't know how to copy DVD's. Yes, it's easy enough to learn how (and it's easy to download the tools necessary to do it) -- but most people don't know how. So if they want a copy of Casino Royale, they go buy it.

Of course, some people know how -- and some people do copy the disc. But I'm guessing that the overall percentage of people who do this, though significant, is still relatively low compared to those who don't.

Now, almost nobody knows how to copy HD-DVD movies. Sure, at some point it'll become more common, but it'll still remain in the realm of Internet-users with an interest in browsing certain sites and downloading certain "tools". So, if you want Casino Royale in HD, well, you go buy it.

Keeping this balance (of more people who don't know how to copy discs than those who do) is vitally important to the Movie Industry -- and well worth the millions they spend on developing new copy protection schemes. That balance got flipped in the Music Industry, and look what happened? In just a few short years, sales in the music industry have been radically reduced.

[Rob James]

RK, I basically agree but, and it is a big but, the music industry is a LOT greedier than the film studios etc. If they charged sensible prices they would do a lot better. I don't see how it can possibly be equitable that a chart CD is the same (or very nearly) price as a chart DVD, at least it is in the UK. Also, the falling sales of CDs fail to take into account the displacement of sales to DVDs. (in a lot of cases, Music DVDs) Faced with a choice of buying a CD or a DVD a lot of folks are buying the DVD.

[infocus]

Now, almost nobody knows how to copy HD-DVD movies. Sure, at some point it'll become more common, but it'll still remain in the realm of Internet-users with an interest in browsing certain sites and downloading certain "tools".
Yes, agreed, but I doubt the studios will be happy with that. Certainly not if Blu-Ray remains unhacked (or is far more difficult, and/or breaches more easily mended). That's why I feel that what is happening now is so key to outcome of the next gen disc battle.

[rkgibbons]

No, the Studios certainly won't be happy with that -- so they'll introduce new forms of HD-DVD copy-protection...and the battle will continue.

But no matter how poorly copy protection schemes may work in the long run, they're worth the money to develop for the short run. That's my only point.

And I agree that the music industry made some huge mistakes (greed, short-sightedness, etc). The were afraid of the future (Mp3 downloads, etc) and tried to fight it rather than embrace it. They could have been the fore-runners of online sales, but instead chose to be the enemy.

[Unicorn]

But no matter how poorly copy protection schemes may work in the long run, they're worth the money to develop for the short run. That's my only point.

I disagree. 'Copy protection' is a huge pain in the ass for customers; you know, the people who pay money for these products.

Screw your customers too many times and they stop coming back and giving you more money. As I said, I've pretty much stopped buying computer games that have 'copy protection', and I don't plan to buy any HD DVDs until the 'copy protection' is as broken as current DVDs... not because I'm intending to upload them on the Internet, but because I refuse to give good money to companies that try to tell me how I can use the products they've sold me.

Currently we're in the absurd position where if you buy a product you're actually _worse_ off than the pirates who just download it from the Internet for free instead. That's ludicrous; paying for something is supposed to get you more, not less.

We went through all this crap in the 80s before companies finally wised up and realised that they were better off selling software without 'copy protection' because they lost less customers that way. It's about time they were made to realise that again.

[Bob Aldis]

Historically most copying that was done on VHS was people who wanted to boast that they had a copy of something that was really new and things did stay new longer then.
Nowadays films are on TV within a year or so.

Scenario is renting Casino Royale and making a copy which you then watch or store if you have watched the original. In most cases this then stays in the cupboard until next time you want to watch it, by which time it has been on TV already and is in the bargain buckets for £2.

I know this is simplifying and they are passed around, but most families who rent DVDs tend to pass them around before they are taken back anyway.

BobA