Panasonic Blog for AG-HVX200 and High Definition

[PaulD]

www.defperception.com

[StevenBagley]

www.defperception.com

Talk about biased... :)

Steven

[infocus]

I actually find it quite worrying. Forums such as this are one thing, conventional advertising another - the Panasonic site (does "Tosh Bilowski" even exist?) gives the aura of the former, but in reality is just another form of advertising. AFAIK nothing said on the site is untrue, but only one side of the story is given. And I can think of several examples where it may be considered a minority view. Sites such as dvxuser show bias (not surprisingly), but at least there opposing views can and are posted, and issues may be openly debated.

Advertising is fine, but my feeling is it should be clearly flagged as such, and I fear this site comes very close to the line. It actually makes me wonder whether it may be a bit of an act of desperation by Panasonic?

[Robin Davies-Rollinson]

Panasonic's press release does own up:

"The blog, featuring “Tosh Bilowski” as the company’s human voice, provides Panasonic a forum to express its views and share its opinions on new technologies, products, features, and activities, as well as answer questions in a meaningful way.

“This web log will serve as a centralized source for accurate information on the AG-HVX200, DVCPRO HD, P2, and on a host of technology subjects, and Tosh allows us to put a human face and personality to it,” said Jim Wickizer, National Manager, Marketing Services, Panasonic Broadcast. “In the past, this type of information has typically been presented in a far-less-interesting manner. The on-line journal’s goal is to be helpful and relevant to video professionals and provide them with a useful reference.”

Personally, I find it just a little bit sickening - worrying certainly - that the whole blog or forum genre can be hi-jacked like this. Still, I suppose it was only a matter of time...

Robin

[infocus]

Personally, I find it just a little bit sickening - worrying certainly - that the whole blog or forum genre can be hi-jacked like this. Still, I suppose it was only a matter of time...
It's interesting to have another look at that site. They've now added a big disclaimer to the top : - "Tosh Bilowski is a fictional character used to deliver real information from multiple sources at Panasonic in an entertaining way. We hope you find the information helpful and we look forward to hearing from you. "

It's also interesting to look at some of the comments for each of his entries, and I do wonder if the whole thing may not be backfiring somewhat on Panasonic. Take the entry for DVCPRO HD v HDV. It starts off as how the former is so obviously better than the latter, then takes a lot of quite well thought out flak. (The revelation to me was that for 720p, although DVCPRO HD is 4:2:2, v 4:2:0 of HDV, then because the former is only 960x720 for luminance it has REDUCED horizontal luminance and chrominance resolution compared to HDV, though better vertical chrominance resolution.)

Tosh promises to talk about workflow issues with P2 and the HVX200. That might be interesting. :)

[Alan Roberts]

But it's nice to see a manufacturer coming clean on actual performance of cameras instead of being shy. I published tables of this sort of stuff a while back here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP034.pdf) and in a few other places, and have even devised a way of relating the numbers to each other that makes sense here (http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/whp/whp-pdf-files/WHP085.pdf).

But it isn't just the format numbers that matter, it's how the prescribed bandwidth is filled with information. For example, the HDX400 has 1280x720 sensors in a 1080-line camera. Sounds duff, but it records to DVCProHD so ideally should produce resolution up to 1440x1080. Since the sensors have "precision offset" placing (where the G is half-pixel shifted sideways from R and B) it produces luma resultion up to 1280*1.5=1920, which can then be filtered off nicely for the recording format. Compare that with the HC1/A1 (1920x1440) single chip; this has to have Bayer-pattern or equivalent to get colour information, so horizontal resolution isn't better than about 1350, while it's superb vertically.

Simplistic comparisons of the numbers don't often tell the right story, you need to know how the kit's built and how the processing works.

[infocus]

But it's nice to see a manufacturer coming clean on actual performance of cameras instead of being shy.
I don't think that is what's happening. In the blog itself - - (amongst much else) the line is : "Back to DVCPRO HD, another advantage is the 4:2:2 color space versus 4:2:0 found on HDV. That means richer detail, better handling of color changes and better color rendering. This is huge, if you like color."

If you look at "comments" for that entry, much of that gets queried. And some aspects successfully. As previously said "The revelation to me was that for 720p, although DVCPRO HD is 4:2:2, v 4:2:0 of HDV, then because the former is only 960x720 for luminance it has REDUCED horizontal luminance and chrominance resolution compared to HDV, though better vertical chrominance resolution."

Overall I'm sure DVCPRO HD may be prefereable to HDV, but it's made me realise it's not all a one sided case, as I'd previously thought.
.......... it records to DVCProHD so ideally should produce resolution up to 1440x1080.

Simplistic comparisons of the numbers don't often tell the right story, you need to know how the kit's built and how the processing works.
Though at 1080, DVCProHD is 1280 horizontally for luminance, isn't it? Regarding the last senence, then, yes, absolutely. That's why Tosh's statement above now annoys me - comparing 4:2:2 with 4:2:0 surely must indeed be a simplistic comparison if they're not referred to the same luminance matrix, mustn't it?

[PaulD]

...I do wonder if the whole thing may not be backfiring somewhat on Panasonic....
Hi
I doubt Panasonic think that.
What was very clear to Panasonic's technical marketing department was the huge buzz that their HVX200 camera had caused since the very first leak of information about it. In the cause of truth and accuracy, rather than outright speculation, Panasonic's DVCPro/DVCProHD product manager has been vociferously promoting a factually-accurate discourse in forum threads such as this one:
http://forums.creativecow.net/cgi-bin/right_read_post_frame.cgi?forumid=193&postid=855922&univpostid=855916#855922

But widely viewed though such threads, and this one, may appear to be to their participants ;) I'm sure Panasonic would rather test out the waters, and find effective ways to fend off any genuine criticism, in such minor backwaters as this and Tosh-blog-land before they launch the product properly on a worldwide stage when they deliver it to market.

[Alan Roberts]

As far as I'm aware, DVCProHD is 1280-wide at 60Hz, but 1440 at 50Hz. At least that was the case when I measured protypes of the HDC20 some years ago. I believe it's still true in the HDX400, and resolution measurements I made only a week ago seem to confirm that.