HDV and big cassettes?

[infocus]

All right, at the moment the answer to the question posed in the subject is "NO". But what for the future?

I've heard different things. Most notable recently is in "High Definition" magazine, which post NAB has a very good round up of the three main announced prosumer HDV models.Most tantalisingly, in the final paragraph it quotes Bob Ott, VP marketing at Sony (Professional):
"Sony also has bigger and better HDV camcorders, VTRs...... in the pipeline. It plans to announce and possibly even release some new products early this summer, according to Ott".

I can't help feeling that at the moment there's a gap opening up in the middle of the market. The top is well catered for by HDCAM, the bottom by HDV, but what about in between, the sort of thing currently catered for in SD by such as the DSR570?

[mooblie]

I may be putting words into Alan R's mouth (sorry!) but didn't he feel that this is deliberate on Sony's part - the lack of big tapes for HDV will keep the pros away, and keep them buying HDCAM etc.

[Alan Roberts]

No sweat, yes, that's what I believe. HDV is officially a small-tape DV format, consumer oriented. And I still feel that FX1/Z1 is a consumer camera, not a professional product, albeit at the high end of the consumer market.

[cstv]

what if we dropped the tape all together and put the HDV ts on a hard drive...? would sony consider bigger, better, HDV cameras then?

i've just been playing with a new JVC 5100 full-sized DV camcorder, which is very nice, but isn't even true 16:9! This suggests to me that JVC see a future for camcorders of this size in this price-range staying in 4:3 SD which is a bit sad... :(

mark.

[StevenBagley]

I've just been playing with a new JVC 5100 full-sized DV camcorder, which is very nice, but isn't even true 16:9! This suggests to me that JVC see a future for camcorders of this size in this price-range staying in 4:3 SD which is a bit sad... :(

To be fair, Sony are still listing 4:3 pro cameras (the recently released DSR-400P for example) as are Panasonic. And JVC had a 16:9 shoulder-mount miniDV camcorder using 2/3" chips for years in the DV700, which has been used on shows such as the BBC's 'Small Town Gardens' before now. Although it seems to be discontinued.

If you can make it, and sell it and make a profit on it, you'd be a fool not to...

Steven

[PaulD]

Hi
As recently as the start of this year here were reports that over 80% of US TV production, and over 90% of US TV sets, were all still 4:3...
Which explains why Sony hasn't felt that the VX/PD range were inappropriate for today's production I suppose :(

[infocus]

As recently as the start of this year here were reports that over 80% of US TV production, and over 90% of US TV sets, were all still 4:3...
Lets be careful about statistics. After all, 67% of people believe 43% of statistical figures to be totally misleading. :)

Everything has to start somewhere, and NO change-over of this sort happens overnight. Even when the last piece of SD 4:3 only has been shipped, it will carry on working for a number of years. A more valid pair of statistics would be current HDvSD equipment sales, and a survey of what the 80% of productions envisage doing in the next few years.

[Alan Roberts]

The whole reason for HDV is to use conventional and cheap tape transport systems. Once you decide to use a hard drive instead, the game changes because you no longer have the 25Mb/s bottleneck. When HD prices are dropping like there's no tomorrow, it makes sense to compress less hard, like Panasonic's HVX200, and HDV can wither away.

[PaulD]

Lets be careful about statistics.

Hi
Sorry, I wasn't quoting precise statistics... ;)
As I think the point is important can I rephrase:
I was gobsmacked to be told by a reliable source that nearly all TV sets in the US are still 4:3, and most production is still done at this aspect ratio.

That's why Sony hasn't felt its 4:3 prosumer camcorders to be significantly out-dated - as a main proportion of its sales are into the US market.

[cstv]

thats what i like to hear, Alan... :) :D :)

[cstv]

Hi
I was gobsmacked to be told by a reliable source that nearly all TV sets in the US are still 4:3, and most production is still done at this aspect ratio.


it's not that suprising when you consider that 16:9 NTSC doesn't technically exist. We, on the other hand, have been broadcasting widescreen for a number of years...

[Alan Roberts]

A couple of interesting statistics from my old gander bag:

1: An Ikegami chap told me a few years ago that the Eurpean market for cameras wasn't that significant to them, they sold more tv cameras to US religious broadcasters than to the whole of the European broiadcasting industry.

2: Over half of total US tv production is not only 4:3, but done on SVHS. And that's because they have a huge infrastructure of extremely low-cost cable and local stations, all keen to attract advertisers.

HD is happening in the US, but the installed base of NTSC, cheap, production facilities will stay in use for at least one more decade.

[cstv]

so maybe it's time for the EU to reduce import duty on HD kit, or offer tax breaks to HD manufacturers within the EU...? anything that would help encourage the manufacture of HD kit for the European market would be no bad thing.

mark.

[Alan Roberts]

Ikegami recently became a "European manufacturer" in order to stop having to pay a 105% import levy. Sony and Panasonic have been manufacturing in Europe for years, so never had to pay it.

[infocus]

HD is happening in the US, but the installed base of NTSC, cheap, production facilities will stay in use for at least one more decade.
Just like happened with colour. I can remember the time when colour was at a similar development state to HD nowadays. My parents kept their b/w TV for years after the introduction of colour transmissions, and b/w sets were still being sold then, though in decreasing numbers.

But how many b/w Tvs do you see nowadays? And do you imagine any broadcasters were installing b/w plant at that point, even though they may have been intending to make the most of what they had? The US figures don't surprise me one bit, just confirm HD is evolving in the same way comparable successful technologies have in the past, probably quicker if anything. I was once told to look at trends rather than numbers, and that advice seems appropiate here.

[Alan Roberts]

Indeed so, anyone re-equipping now, or starting up now, should be considering HD.

[K O'Malley]

I understand that JVC have a large (standard) shell camcorder in the development stage, 2/3rds shoulder mounted. The HD 50 deck is designed to take both sizes of cassette, so it should happen.

[cstv]

The HD 50 deck is designed to take both sizes of cassette, so it should happen.

excellent! so the pictures on JVC's literature only shows mini tapes because that's all that the camcorders will record at the moment? It makes sense for JVC to be much more interested in making HDV "pro" than Sony would be.

mark.